Lith again

[Dot]

The ads are still in the Wanderer from Itech world .

[Swisslulu]

Our T1 lithium install in March is still going strong. 840w of solar to complement the 160w panel installed by Jayco. Therefore, 1kw of solar. 400aH of Lifepo4 batteries installed by Terry replaced the 100aH AGM supplied by Jayco.

We spent quite a bit of time free camping in Qld over 11 weeks but also more than the usual time in CPs.

Looking forward to more time off grid. We are now 8 years into living with LiFePo4 batteries. They have never let us down.

[T1 Terry]

Looking at the price difference of the first batch of iTechWorld lithium batteries and the new stock gives an idea of how higher quality the first lot must have been with some resellers discounting them a lot to clear them off their shelves, yet the new 100Ah battery is roughly $1000 but not actually a 100Ah lithium battery.
SPECIFICATIONS:


Nominal Voltage: 12.8v
C20 Rating usable amps 10v: 105Ah
Short Circuit Protection: Yes
Optimum Temperature Range: +5 to +60°C
BMS Operational Temperature Range: -40 to 80°C
Safety Protection Isolator: 80°C
Recommended Charge Current: 20 - 50A
Maximum Charge Current: 100A
Recommended Charge Voltage: 14.4v
BMS Charge Cut Off Voltage: 15v
BMS Low Voltage Cut Off: 8.5-9v
Continuous Discharge: 150A (175A 5 mins)
Peak Discharge: 280A 5 sec
Life Cycles 80%: 4000 +
Life Cycles 50%: 5000 +
Life Cycles 30%: 8000 +
UL certified 1642
IP67 Rated - Waterproof - Dust proof
CE Certified
Rohs Certified
UN38.3 Certified
ISO 9001 Certified
ISO 1400 Certified
Dimensions (LxWxH): 330*173*215mm
Weight: 12kg
Terminal Type: M8
Case Material: ABS
Lithium batteries are rated at the equivalent of a C2 discharge rate, not a C20 which is AGM discharge rating. Then down to 10v and 105Ah capacity, are they crazy? At 10v the battery would be stuffed ...

T1 Terry

Just for those who are not familiar with the C rating for deep cycle batteries, the C signifies the capacity and the number after it signifies the number of hrs for the battery to be discharged from 100% SOC down to a minimum voltage per cell. As an example, 100Ah @ C20 = 100Ah/20hr= 5 amps, that is the maximum load that will deliver the full 100Ah capacity. In the case of the iTechWorld battery listed as 120X and 280 amps max https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-ITECH12 ... %3A2334524 the 10v battery isolation voltage equals 2.5v per cell if all the cells are even at that level of discharge. The chances of that are virtually zero, you can not both top balance and bottom balance a lithium battery, one or the other but you can't have both.
The discharge current used in this spec is 5 amps, the balance boards used can move 5mA or 0.05 amps, clearly they could not rebalance between the cells while still under the 5 amp load. An LiFeP04 battery discharged at such a low rate (5 amps) should stop the discharge if any cell drops to 2.8v. The cell would have still been at 3vdc plus when all the genuine capacity was used because the discharge rate is so low, using an average of 2.5v per cell is really seriously draining the cell, the fact at least one cell would be much lower than that 2.5v average after a few cycles doesn't bode well for long battery life.
The proper load for testing LiFeP04 cells/batteries is a discharge over 2 hrs, 50 amps from a 100Ah battery, the cell voltage should still remain above 2.8v at the end of the 2 hrs while the load is still connected.
As a guesstimation I'd suggest the real capacity of this iTechworld (using a proper LiFeP04 cell test) would be approx. 80Ah at best, that would mean the 280 amp max discharge rate would be 3.5CA or 3 times the cell/battery capacity, that is why there is a 5 sec limit to this high current discharge.

Buyer beware, read exactly what is written in the specs, not what is suggested by ambiguous wording aimed to make you think that is what they are claiming, it is the specs they will use when denying a claim if they choose to get out of paying a claim.

T1 Terry

[native pepper]

Simple solution Terry, make up your own bank of cells, or get someone like you who knows what they are doing with lithium. Personally wouldn't buy a supposed lifepo4 battery, tried the supposed lifepo4 starter battery a few years ago, which lasted about 2 years and know a couple of people that bought expensive lifepo4 batteries and are very disappointed with them.

When you read the technical stats Terry posted, it's easy to see a battery like that would fail after a short time, having 15v as top SOC and 9v as DOD, is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. I freak out when people tell me they take their lifepo4 systems to 14.5v SOC and 10v DOD, like most, they prefer to listen to the propaganda fed to them by manufacturers and in my experience, they are totally wrong in how to use lifepo4.

[Cuppa]

Bit of a long shot here. Can anyone identify these batteries from this very ordinary pic. They are apparently 120Ah Lithium 'Drop in's' & bought mid 2018.

IMG_0482.jpg

[Newcastle George]

Who bought them in 2018?

George

[T1 Terry]

Bit of a long shot here. Can anyone identify these batteries from this very ordinary pic. They are apparently 120Ah Lithium 'Drop in's' & bought mid 2018.

IMG_0482.jpg

6 of them, I'm guessing all in parallel ....... serious wallet pain just waiting to happen I'm guessing. Victron do make a lithium battery that is in a blue case, but I don't believe the Victron BMS has a port for that many batteries. As far as I understand it, their batteries will not work at all unless they are connected to the Victron BMS, that way they avoid warranty issues with people not having a clue about what they are doing and also get to sell even more rather expensive equipment
A mob called CALB (Chinese Aviation Lithium Battery) made blue cased cells in the past as well as a mob called GBS Lithium, but they both had ribs on the outer casing, not flat .....

T1 Terry

[Cuppa]

Hi Terry,
There are 3 batteries . I think the straps securing them make it look like 6?
On the basis that the Victron ones I found on the net have a line of what look like small vents around them near the top of their case walls & these don't, & the fact that Victron are not advertising 120Ah batteries (although the info given could be wrong) but I'm thinking they are not Victron.

The only other blue cased ones I could find online are Amptron but they are 100Ah
https://www.amptron.com.au/12v-100ah-li ... ttery.html

George they are in an off road motorhome/camper we are thinking about buying. (More on that later if we proceed with it). They have been running since purchased through a Redarc charger without a lithium charging profile & the claim is their BMS successfully manages this.

Someone is hopefully going to look it over for us at the weekend.

[Cuppa]

Cuppa there may be 1 more behind those 3?
There is a ripper outback MH around here for you but depends on your price range?

No just the 3 Bruce.
What is an 'outback' motorhome?

Our criteria makes finding something to suit almost impossible.
-needs to be able to go pretty much anywhere the Patrol & Tvan can go - that excludes 99% of the off road motorhomes/expedition trucks.
- no more towing ( to avoid the 'will we be able to turn around' issues which see us passing 'interesting' looking tracks).
- indoor kitchen with oven & grill.
- indoor seating & table
-Toilet
- a bed which doesn't need to be made up each night
- lack of computery stuff to keep the mechanicals going.
- Minimum range of 1200kms between fuel stops, preferably 1500kms
- water & food carrying capacity to last a month+ at a time
-Hot water
-Max length 6.5metres, preferably a bit less
-poptop to minimise travel height (access again)
- Mechanically sound to give us confidence to take it to remote locations, & easy to get parts for.
- self sufficient solar set up
- at least as capable off road as the Patrol.
- Enjoyable to drive.

Basically the Patrol takes a lot of beating, & is a vehicle we have built great trust in, both in terms of reliability & capability, but we would like the option of 'indoor living' when the weather is crap, & for the indoor seating to have a pleasant outlook (ie a rear 'panoramic' view).


Not asking much eh? As you can see - not an easy thing to find ..... but the one we are looking at meets every single one of those criteria with the exceptions of the permanently made bed, & rear window but we think we can modify both those things to suit. And it also has a few niceties like a diesel heater, 12v actuated poptop, electrically adjusted driver passenger seats and airbag levelling on each corner operated from the drivers seat & a big understressed diesel motor with plenty of torque whilst giving similar fuel consumption to the Patrol with Tvan.

What it offers is fairly unique within a small niche market - chances of anything similar coming onto the market anytime soon are extremely low. It wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea but we think it might suit us exceptionally well. If it's as good as it sounds & my idea for the bed modification is feasible (& the owner/builder believes it is) then hopefully we'll get it. If not we'll stick with the Patrol & Tvan.

[Cuppa]

Way too big to fit down many tracks & totally inadequate ground clearance to seriously take off road Bruce. More a dirt roader than an off roader.