LPG instalations

[oldtrack123]

[quote="Kelvin12"
Its not the up to date qualifications all are qualified installers its the interpenetration of the existing rules,
Dirk[/quote]

Hi Dirk
That is it in a nutshell
They may be currently licensed {qualified] but in the case of some electricians,they have still been responsible for serious injuries & deaths;
Every year in every state, many electricians are penalised for faulty or dangerous workmanship,yes, they have CURRENT licenses
& supposedly up to date with all the latest rules ,regs ,Standards ,& technology

Here is an incident of a licensed electrical contractor

{Quote]Electrician banned for life
15 December 2012
Rosebery electrician Bill Zisoglou, trading as Microenergy BN97844170, has had his electrical licence (110052C) cancelled and been disqualified permanently from the New South Wales building industry for improper conduct.
NSW Fair Trading Commissioner Rod Stowe said Mr Zisoglou’s work was so substandard that he caused a gas pipe to become electrified, resulting in his first year apprentice receiving a substantial electric shock[end quote]

Further advice is the apprentice needs near full time care
So civil charges are no doubt also pending
PeterQ
[end quote]
One needs to understand:
[1] The appropriate Standard[rules ,regs] for the particular situation /

[2]since it is not possible to cover every circumstance, it is necessary to understand the INTENT of the Standard ,rule or reg

[3]Passing an exam is no indication of ability to apply what may have been learnt parrot fashion
I knew an electrical apprentice who obtained honours in every year of his 5year apprentice ship yet his practical abilities barely extended beyond repairing a fuse .
He was hopeless at fault detection & UNDERSTANDING how things ACTUALLY worked

PeterQ

[bobk]

Bill,

Exactly, why can I find out things that should be done and how to do it, yet these turkeys can't. One installer here wanted $80 to just come and have a "look". He says its to cover his expenses and fuel, he lives less the 30km's away, 15min each way. When I asked him what size vents I needed he said buy a domestic vent they are right. I told him there are quite a few domestic vents, which one do I need. "No idea I'll have to go and measure one"....... This bloke is a domestic agent, enough said, he wont be doing my bus. Neither will a few other around this place. Talk about a bloody joke, if it wasn't such dangerous it would be a joke.

Dirk

Dirk, at the risk of losing friends, I must take you up on your denigrating comments regarding the '$80 to "just" come and have a look'. You may not have had experience in travelling to give quotes, so I will tell you that 'less than 30 kms away' will never be 15 minutes each way. Add to that the time taken to discuss your requirements, peruse the job while crawling around under a greasy chassis, have a cup of tea even (if offered) and the next thing you know you have lost a couple of hours out of your day. Now go to the next prospective job and repeat the process and half your day is gone. Now figure out using your own income what it means to lose half a days income over work that you may not be employed to do. It is damn difficult living on air. And I have not mentioned the overheads of vehicle use, and the dangers of simply driving a vehicle in traffic. I fully understand the charge your installer requested.

Regards
Bobk

[T1 Terry]

When I had my mechanical repair business we never gave free quotes, they were charged on an hrly basis, but, they were fully refunded from the quoted price if they went ahead with the job. very few people trust a mechanic that gives free quotes and I don't blame them, the same should go for any tradesman.

[Kelvin12]

G'Day Bob,

No chance of loosing any friends....Lol.

From Coffs to my place here at Urunga 30k's, 15min's, 100 and 110kmh limits. Both of us are on the ends of the towns and its expressway all the way except for 2 odd kilometers for him coming south from Coffs. Even peak hour here its half a dozen cars banked up at the lights. I have no problems paying for a quote, BUT never in all the years I have restored cars I have never been asked to pay for a quote for work I couldn't carry out myself nor charged for a quote myself for work for others. Again when I renovated a couple of houses have I ever been asked to pay for a quote. By the same token my oldest is involved in the mechanical trade for many years now and has never asked for payment for a quote. This is certainly common practice up here. Can't speak for Sydney of course these days as its a while since we lived down that way. Maybe its the regional areas but I haven't heard of any one being asked to pay for a quote. This gas fitter is the first to ask I have come across.

On the gas fitter front. This is the same bloke who couldn't tell me what sized vents I need. I quoted to him from the gas regulations what was needed. His suggestion I duck into a caravan place and have a look at their vents, he didn't know what size was required. He nominated a caravan dealer up here..... He didn't know about the 4 seasons upper roof vent. He also wasn't interested in me roughing it in. I can understand that but it hardly instills confidence in his work if he doesn't know the regs. Its not rocket science. I built this bus from the chassis up and replaced the lot. Its not as though I can't build something. Regardless of all that I really needed to know what size vents I needed just so as I could accommodate them into the build or make provision for them, really basic initial stuff.

If I was asked to pay for a quote that would be the end of the deal, I would be going elsewhere for sure. During the floods we had up here a couple of years ago the insurance companies were insisting we all get at least three quotes for damage or replacement furniture items etc. There was no mention of any payment for them.

Maybe things are changing down in the big smoke, but that being the case I reckon this would be real encouragement for a DIY'er to take up the tools himself.

Dirk

[T1 Terry]

The reason for switching to paid quotes is the practise of the backyarders sending people to licensed tradesman to quote what needs to be done, then under cutting the quote as they didn't need to do any of the diagnosis and pricing. My quotes were itemised and I stood by them, you knew up front exactly how much the job would cost. All that takes time, I could book 13 hrs a days paid work every day, but where would I have fitted in time for quoting? So I should have cut it back to half that at double rates so I could do fee quotes for back yarders to under cut? The only ones who complained were those who you knew had no intention of ever getting you to do the work, when you said the quote was fully refundable their objection didn't change, at that point I walked away, no point in wasting time with people like that.
Country areas may be different but there is absolutely zero trust in the cities any more, the general public have done that to themselves. regular customers would just drop the car off with a "fix what ever needs fixing, but please give me an idea of costs if it will go over XXX $$ so we can reschedule if for another pay, I never had a problem with that and often carried the credit for a while to soften the blow to the family budget.

[oldtrack123]

The sooner we go to federal rules the better then everyone will be equal regardless. Even interstate registration rules and inspections are up for changes and big changes. Vehicles that comply now may not shortly.

Dirk

Hi Dirk
Work is already on the way for NATIONAL Gas & Electrical Regulations , no more individual STATE ACTS/Rregulations[licensing , extent of coverage ,who can do what etc]
Subject for ALL states being able to come to agreement ,should be in place late 2014 early 2015
It should a overcome a lot of problems
With Qld having some of the touhgest ,it will be enteresting to see what is watered down

PeterQ.

[Kelvin12]

G'Day Peter,

That would be the best thing that could ever be done. Why NSW didn't/wouldn't agree is beyond me. Maybe vested interests or animosity between regulators who would know. I just want to make sure the work being done is up to scratch and done correctly. Just look at the post by Busman who got his done by a licensed fitter certified and all, but had to pull it apart to do it properly as the piping was loose and rattling among other things. Maybe I am a bit to fussy, but I want to know its done right the first time and what has been done is correct and will meet the new regs. in the future as much as possible.

Dirk

[PandJ R away]

When we did the Coaster we found a copy of the current regulations and tried our best to understand the section on caravans and mobile installations (which are not that many pages). We used that as a basis for planning the placement of taps, pipes, bottle tray and appliances.

We then met with a few fitters specializing in caravans to look over our plan. Really we were interviewing the tradesman to see if we could work with them. When we founds the fellow we could relate to the best he came over and provided a quote as well as advising ways we could alter other fittings/ planned fittings eg the calorifier and pumps to make the gas fitting easier and more efficient. I drilled holes at the appropriate points, made the bottle holders and regulator mount etc. which took quite a while within the cabinet work and the chassis.

To top it off he arranged for a gas examiner to check and counter sign the certificate as the job spanned the changeover period between 2 sets of rules which ensured that we would not have issues in the future.

Then he came back and fitted the gas system. The key was;
1. having a good idea of what we wanted and the rules the fitter had to work within so that an informed planning discussion could occur.
2. finding a tradesman who we could work with. (We found few we would never use for anything)
3 Being flexible

John

[oldtrack123]

Hi John
That was a very sensible way to go about it


PeterQ

[Dot]

We got stung a beauty with the first "gas fitter" seeing we were virgins to this conversion thing we contacted the "grey army" for the appropriate tradesman.. He installed the gas lines, connected to the gas bottles and connected the hot water service. Yeah right after $900 + later we were provided with a certificate off he went. How dumb were we? So after a ph call to check with the gas reg people we were told um no he should NOT have given the cert because he did not do the job correctly..LIKE.. The gas regulator was too low, solid gas line leading to the regulator, had big vents in the gas compartment (not required), not enough gas line supports, no gas stop cocks before each appliance, had not connected up stove or fridge, no test on the operation of the appliances, no appropriate air vents in the bus, no issue of warning stickers above the stove and on the gas comp door. That was the things we can remember.. Anyway we had to get another gas fitter and another huge bill added to the amount . BUT oh how we learnt.