is this a lipo batt

Discussion about any electrical topic except 240 volts. Solar, converters, inverters, lights, battery chargers, etc
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T1 Terry
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Re: is this a lipo batt

Post by T1 Terry »

What I am saying is say I have 400 AH (AGM) battery bank at present, that is at least 200 AH usable. Of that I run all I need to, but if they were Lithium I would only need half that (100 AH) to run the same equipment. And that is what I meant with the "Or do I have this wrong?".
If you can run all you need with 200Ah than you would need 200Ah of lithium minimum, you would get a longer life if you only use 80% of the batteries capacity but they will still give 1,000 cycles if used down to 0%SOC. The capacity would become an issue if you have an inverter that draws a very high current, a 2500w inverter at full load would demand 230 amps, well within the lithium’s ability to supply but if the current draw was for an extended period the battery life would be shortened, 0.5C is the discharge rate Winston use for their life cycle testing so a discharge rate higher than that is unknown territory.
The charger depends on what charger you have now, if it was compatible with US Gel batteries it will be fine, you would need a battery monitor that could count Ah in and out, not one that makes an estimate based on voltage, the inverter depends on what appliances you want to run but it would exactly the same inverter for any type of battery chemistry that is nom. 12v. The only additional monitoring is a cell logger to display individual cell voltages and sound an alarm if a cell goes outside the boundaries, about $50 including the plug and cables.
The system is as much a fit and forget as the one you have now, you can't just forget about how much you discharge the batteries or their minimum voltage but an alarm would sound if you went too low so possibly less attention required than the ones you use now. The other end of the scale, they never really need to be recharged to 100%, it's more for resetting the battery monitor so you know where 20% SOC and 0% SOC is, the cells will discharge below 100% capacity but you are headed into rapid cell voltage drop past this point, but again, an alarm would sound, an alarm would also sound if you over charged the cells for some reason like using a charger that isn't set to suit the batteries, if you were there to turn the charger off when the alarm sounded you could charge the lithium batteries with any charger. we have developed an automated system that turns the charge off if an over voltage alarm sounds so correctly wired up you could potentually use and charger, I wouldn't do it though. In my books the cell logger and alarm is a safety back up system, not a primary control system, belt and braces stuff I guess.

T1 Terry
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Re: is this a lipo batt

Post by homeless »

Craig said
"Can I ask just how much additional outlay of the hard earned is spent on chargers, monitors and an inverter that is big enough to operate all this gear? Also once they are set up, is it pretty much a set and forget type system (like I have now) or does it require ongoing monitoring and input from you."
I think Terry has answered the monitoring. For me I check the SOC and the AH in and AH out at night and then go to bed.
With my setup I did detailed costings for the AGM and Lithiums.
I bought a bus setup for 240v. Never free camped always in parks so had all 240v appliances.
By retaining the 240v fridge (not buying a 12v one) I paid for the batteries for the house set and also had enough left over for the PL40 and a few trinkets.
My charger inverter is a no thrills Ebay special which has worked a treat 2400W continuous that runs the fridge and the hot water and all other items.
'The only time I have to think about what I am using is if I had the Aircon running and I want to run the induction stove at the same time. Both are over 2Kw units so I makes the 2.4kw unit a bit upset.
In the total costings the Lithium was actually the cheaper version and I was able to carry more AH. I only have a 7 mtr bus and only a small area for the batteries. I would be pushing to place 3 x 100Ah AGMs in the place I have 180Ah @24v.
I added the lithiums in the crank set as the bus had two small car batteries when I bought it and they looked very old and sorry so decided to change before they died on the road so i could have it all setup before getting into trouble.
I am happy with my setup and yes I am tired of the knockers who had never even seen the batteries or done any research and yet they continued to knock anything we said during the early days.
We have a good group now enhancing the systems with people who have open minds and skills to build on an already good system.
On air conditioners, I have used mine for over 4 hours at one time whilst working in the bus but normally use at night for a couple of hours before retiring to cool the bus so I can sleep. I have never used an Aircon in a home 24/7 so see no need in my bus. I consider the bus is to get me from A to B and to store my stuff and to sleep in. During the day I normally only enter for food or drinks etc.
When the Aircon is running on about 50% I am loosing about 10AH above the solar charge so every two hours of running I need another hour or a bit more to get back to where I was before starting the aircon. I have used in the afternoon and still gone to bed with about 95%+ SOC.
Regards
Brian

Regards
Brian
12 × 5 house boat moored at the present in Mannum Waters Marina.
Converting to LiFePo4 for float alone status
BACAMICK

Re: is this a lipo batt

Post by BACAMICK »

T1 Terry wrote:It is better to run one 12v battery but the cells can be built up from many smaller capacity cells linked in parallel and then these groups linked in series. If you try to link 12v batteries together each battery must have it's own monitoring system to ensure all the cells remain working together but then you also have to make sure all the 12v batteries are working together as well, a nightmare of control gear would be required.
This is a 12v 720Ah battery built up from 90Ah cells, it has powered all my fridges, solar hot water pumps and controls, patio lighting and a battery charger for the bus 24/7 for the last 18 mths recharged each day from solar. It stays perfectly balance connected this way, if I trying to connect them as 8 x 90Ah batteries it would be like trying to herd cats into working cat sled team
720Ah at 12v nom2.JPG
T1 Terry
terry what are them small wires ? is this a 12 v setup , if so wat are the yellow/intercont wires doing running from aech bank , im gathering there 4 cells to make 12v each side
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Re: is this a lipo batt

Post by T1 Terry »

The small wires go to cell loggers to record the voltages. I do a lot of testing and I was conducting long term tests to see if there was any differences in the group cell voltages when the two packs were linked via different methods. Normally any number of cells connected in parallel would only require a single set of voltage sensing wires.
A person may fail many times, they only become a failure when they blame someone else John Burrows
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Re: is this a lipo batt

Post by BACAMICK »

thanks for that terry , i was thinking it was wires for the bms u guys talk about , am i correct in saying that if u used 4x200ah 3.2v winstons from the ev works site that i would end up with 800ah or would it only be 200ah @ 12v , i see u have 8x90ah to give u 720 ah or are all urs 12vx8
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BACAMICK

Re: is this a lipo batt

Post by BACAMICK »

BACAMICK wrote:thanks for that terry , i was thinking it was wires for the bms u guys talk about , am i correct in saying that if u used 4x200ah 3.2v winstons from the ev works site that i would end up with 800ah or would it only be 200ah @ 12v , i see u have 8x90ah to give u 720 ah or are all urs 12vx8
cheers
ahhh answered it myself i think , u have 16 3.2s connected in that pic in each bank ?
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Re: is this a lipo batt

Post by T1 Terry »

My set up in the photo is 8 x 90Ah cells in parallel to make 720Ah @ 3v and 4 packs of these in series to build a 12v battery, so the 4 x 200Ah cells would give you either 800Ah @ 3v or 400Ah @ 6v or 200Ah at 12v, depending which way you linked them together.
A person may fail many times, they only become a failure when they blame someone else John Burrows
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