DIN Rails?

[T1 Terry]

Until they start making contactors and relays with all the 240 at one end (in and out) and the lower control voltage at the other side, it is impossible for total seperation, that is why my very experienced sparky says it is crap. You tell me how you seperate them when the terminals are within mils of each other, it is impossible, as they have to come out of the same cable duct, so that makes the whole rule silly in my opinion. And as far as the out "practical" goes, we could still be arguing about that next century.

Not quite sure what contactors you are using that only separate the 2 circuits by a few mm. All the ones we use have a 25mm separation between the 2 wire terminal entry points, the Schneider Electric contactor even has an accessory safety shield available to clip over the ELV connections to add a level of separation between the two lots of terminals. The Finder contactors also have about 25mm between where the two lots of wiring feeds in, but it doesn't appear to have a special shield available as an accessory, so we have to make them ourselves.

T1 Terry

[Grandad]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Most rude of me when people take the trouble to respond to a question. Been tied up.

When I renovated my garage I bought a complete unit & it was a lot cheaper than buying the bits & pieces.

Thank you Bruce. I'll check out Bunnings taking into consideration Busman & Terry's advice of whether they have a separate metal bar or not.
Care to wager they are the cheap-ass version and I end up going to Middys or similar? "Lowest prices are just the beginning"
Nup, that's the beginning, end and middle. Cheapest at any cost. Cause we all know. Cheapest is always the best, isn't it? Rant over.

Good ones have a pressed steel DIN rail and removable, the cheaper stuff it is moulded in as part of the box.

Noted. Thank you.

..... all 2 breakers wide, so you need a box that carries double the number .... 6 x double pole units fit in a 12 pole box.

I didn't know that.

Further question please.
Two spaces for an RVD which I understand also incorporates an on/off or cutoff switch mentioned by Busman.
Two spaces for a 3way switch like THIS ONE
Plus two spaces for one only 16A for all 240V power? or 1x 16A + 1x 10A for lights only same as household?

The very important bit, only AC wiring and stuff in the AC box and only DC stuff in the DC box. Even behind the board the 2 groups must be separated,

I'm assuming you mean only behind the DIN rail box. I will indeed have 12VDC stuff in the same cupboard but never the twain shall meet. The 240V stuff will go directly behind the switchboard and the 12V DC are all in separate conduits. They all end up in the same cupboard but different sections.

....... and PLEASE don't use household wiring for DC stuff, or speaker wire either. Never use automotive cable for the AC stuff

Hmmmm. You've reopened a dilemma for me.
1. First. ALL 240V wiring is 2.5mm2 three core stranded. Yeah ok. Light circuits theoretically should be 1.5mm2 but because all the cabling is buried behind the wall and physically impossible to get to I figured they can never be confused. Besides. that was how the original was wired by Franklin back in 1969. So, who's to say it ain't original?
2. Now the dilemma part. Originally when I ran the cabling umpteen years ago I had a surplus supply of 1.5MM2 switched active stuff laying around. 1x red and 1x white wire. Money was tight at the time so I thought bugger it, I'll use that for the 12V lights. Each run powers a single LED light. Total draw. 2/5th of a poofteenth of one amp on a very bad day.
When I then started to get back into it I cursed myself for being a cheapskate and wished I had used 6mm auto. I've convinced myself that powering a single LED it will be fine. I'll use 6mm auto to power the USB ports which will be used for recharging phones, laptop etc.
I bought myself some rolls of all the different colour wires used in that 7 core cable used to wire up the caravan plug to the car. All the same gauge as used in the cable. And I was surprised at how tiny it was. I checked the wiring on my car and its the same gauge stuff. So if that is good enough to use to wire the LED's in my taillights, stop lights etc, the 1.5mm2 should be over kill for the interior LED's.
Are you now got to tell me no?

What you are talking about is a small switchboard, usually a sub mains, usually with a plastic DIN rail. You can get them down to a couple of 2 pole RCD's. Plus an isolation switch of course.
As Bruce has said much cheaper when loaded with all the bits, they run specials at places like Ideal from time to time.

Thanks mate.

Cheers everyone.
Jim

[Newcastle George]

Jim, the link in your post has url at the end, it needs to be removed. It should be https://www.electrotraders.com.au/hager ... itch-1-0-2

George

[Grandad]

Thanks George. Done

Jim

[BruceS]

I think it's best to separate lights from power simply because it's 'usually' power that gets overloaded or shorts out much more than lights. Have a thought about running all lights on 12v? one small power brick to run all LEDs. Maybe still have the 10A for lights to a converter to the lights.
Sounds like you 'luv' the RVD option? Check out 'His' website as I think he now sells the combination RVD, RCD & isolator (main switch) in one item. Might occupy less space in your box.

[T1 Terry]

The reason for using automotive cable for the 12v stuff is because it is so flexible the stands won't break easily, and because it is easy to identify as being 12v not 240vac. As far as the cable size goes, LED's need very little current to power them so the wire size can be very small. If you look on evilbay under irrigation cable, https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-5-7-9-13- ... 2SmWEe0mvA you can get multiple different colour very light gauge cable that would be plenty heavy enough to power LED lights and give you an easy identification of which wire is what and where it goes

[supersparky]

Jim, If you don't like the little sub boards from the green shed, then go back to online site you listed and look at these.

https://www.electrotraders.com.au/catal ... ains+board

I can't from the pic if they have a metal Din rail or a moulded plastic one , but I would expect it is somewhere in the description.

[Grandad]

I think it's best to separate lights from power simply because it's 'usually' power that gets overloaded or shorts out much more than lights.

Ok. Falls into the 'why not' category. Just means I need a slightly larger box. I've got the room.

Have a thought about running all lights on 12v? one small power brick to run all LEDs. Maybe still have the 10A for lights to a converter to the lights.

I'm using the original light fittings because I have them and they're at least one thing true to original. They have both 240V and 12V globes. I've changed the 240V incandescent for 240V LED ones and the original car brake light ones for the same in 12V LED.
i'm just leaving options open. I've got a small 240/12 transformer that could easily run all the 12V lights when hooked up to power or..... Just use the 240V. 6 of one. half dozen of the other. I have no idea how I'll end up using them.

Sounds like you 'luv' the RVD option? Check out 'His' website as I think he now sells the combination RVD, RCD & isolator (main switch) in one item. Might occupy less space in your box.

Takes up two spaces. I don't "Luv" Ian's RVD's. Just going on what I've read on that other forum. I don't remember all the details of why now. Running the van on a generator (Which I have zero desire to do) was one. Apparently the RCD won't work in that instance. I think the same applied to running off an inverter but I'm not 100% certain.
I'm open to any advice about whether its a good thing or not.

In so many cases, I read an explanation of "why" we should do one thing over another and if the person explaining has points on the board for knowing what he's talking about then I just make a note to use XYZ and don't bother trying to remember the reason.
This is one of those cases.

Jim, If you don't like the little sub boards from the green shed, then go back to online site you listed and look at these.
https://www.electrotraders.com.au/catal ... ains+board
I can't from the pic if they have a metal Din rail or a moulded plastic one , but I would expect it is somewhere in the description.

Thanks mate. The description reads "Complete with Neutral/Earth Links and Busbar" which kind of sounds to me like one of those brass terminal blocks which is what I'm assuming what Terry was suggesting I look for. They're not expensive. I think I'd rather pay a few dollars more so i can hold it in my hands and see what's what.
Is a brass busbar what Terry was referring to?

Or, Terry??

Jim

[supersparky]

Jim, The little brass busbar is to connect all your neutrals. They are usually numbered so you line the numbers up with your RCD/RVD/CB's - whatever combo you decide on. It just makes it all easier, cleaner and much simpler for some poor bugger to fault find a few years down the track, when you forgot how it was wired.

[Grandad]

So, is that what Terry would have been referring to when he suggested "Good ones have a pressed steel DIN rail and removable, the cheaper stuff it is moulded in as part of the box"
What is your personal opinion on RVD vs. RCD? Worth the extra $$ ?

JIm