George; as we concluded over the phone.
Question: what is the AC main voltage at about 4-30am. You may need to press the supply company to adjust the tap on the transformer to a lower voltage. If the lowest AC mains is still considerably above 232V, they might.
Solar quotes for our house
-
- Posts: 3284
- Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:21 pm
- Location: Kotara, Newcastle
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
Re: Solar quotes for our house
Jon, at 4:40 the data shows the AC voltage at the inverter to be 227V and at 5:45, 247V, at which time the grid voltage at our meter box was also 247V.
George
George
George, Julie, Leonie & Sean - Kotara, Newcastle
DIY 11.5M 1979 Bedford, Nissan/UD FE6T motor
DIY 11.5M 1979 Bedford, Nissan/UD FE6T motor
-
- Posts: 3284
- Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:21 pm
- Location: Kotara, Newcastle
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
Re: Solar quotes for our house
I thought I had posted this earlier, an email sent to the solar company by my son, ATD Electrical,on Nov 4.
"At your customer's request, we have completed inspection of the photovoltaic installation at 203 Park Avenue KOTARA, following evidence that the system is not operating or performing as intended and warranted.
The inspection was limited to assessing compliance against:
AS NZS 4777.1 - 2016
Clause 3.3.3 Voltage Rise and
Appendix C
Our inspection identified that voltage rise on the installation can be calculated at in excess of 2.9%, 6.7V (where the maximum permissible is 2%, 4.6V)
When combined with fluctuating grid voltages of 222.1 - 251.4VAC (measured on Sunday 3rd November 2019 at the neighbouring property which does not appear to be affected by voltage rise or drop), this noncompliance results in:
voltages at the inverter of up to 258.1VAC
in-turn, resulting in the repeated shutdown of the system (when voltages at the Point of Supply exceed 253.0VAC, setting dependant)
in-turn, resulting in lost production (which is sure to be exacerbated in the summer months)
Excessive installation voltage rise is as a result of:
50m, 16mm SDI consumer mains (1.38%, 3.18V)
14m, 4mm TPS inverter final subcircuit (1.55%, 3.56V)
Totalling (2.93%, 6.74V)
Possible solutions include:
Upsize consumer mains to 25mm AND final sub-circuit to 6mm (1.9%, 4.4V) or, a more cost-effective solution
Upsize the final sub-circuit to 10mm (2%, 4.6V = maximum permissible)
Please don't hesitate in contacting me.
Kind Regards,"
Their response was:
"Hi Guy,
Thank you very much for the repot, forwarded to the original installer."
And the installer's response was:
"HI Pat,
I am unsure as to why you have forwarded this email to me, and not come up with a resolution.
This issue has come about from Arise not doing a pre install inspection (where the grid voltage at no load could have been tested, and Voltage Rise calculation completed.
I have CC’d Roy in on this reply, and we look forward to hearing your proposed solution, noting that we have assumed you completed a VR calculation on this job, and we were not informed of any issues, and proceeded with the installation as normal.
Please note that we have completed a calculation based on Guy’s suggestion to upgrade the inverter cable to 10mm, however we think this would still be very close to 3% VR.
Thanks in advance for your time.
Thanks & Regards
Jason Burns"
"At your customer's request, we have completed inspection of the photovoltaic installation at 203 Park Avenue KOTARA, following evidence that the system is not operating or performing as intended and warranted.
The inspection was limited to assessing compliance against:
AS NZS 4777.1 - 2016
Clause 3.3.3 Voltage Rise and
Appendix C
Our inspection identified that voltage rise on the installation can be calculated at in excess of 2.9%, 6.7V (where the maximum permissible is 2%, 4.6V)
When combined with fluctuating grid voltages of 222.1 - 251.4VAC (measured on Sunday 3rd November 2019 at the neighbouring property which does not appear to be affected by voltage rise or drop), this noncompliance results in:
voltages at the inverter of up to 258.1VAC
in-turn, resulting in the repeated shutdown of the system (when voltages at the Point of Supply exceed 253.0VAC, setting dependant)
in-turn, resulting in lost production (which is sure to be exacerbated in the summer months)
Excessive installation voltage rise is as a result of:
50m, 16mm SDI consumer mains (1.38%, 3.18V)
14m, 4mm TPS inverter final subcircuit (1.55%, 3.56V)
Totalling (2.93%, 6.74V)
Possible solutions include:
Upsize consumer mains to 25mm AND final sub-circuit to 6mm (1.9%, 4.4V) or, a more cost-effective solution
Upsize the final sub-circuit to 10mm (2%, 4.6V = maximum permissible)
Please don't hesitate in contacting me.
Kind Regards,"
Their response was:
"Hi Guy,
Thank you very much for the repot, forwarded to the original installer."
And the installer's response was:
"HI Pat,
I am unsure as to why you have forwarded this email to me, and not come up with a resolution.
This issue has come about from Arise not doing a pre install inspection (where the grid voltage at no load could have been tested, and Voltage Rise calculation completed.
I have CC’d Roy in on this reply, and we look forward to hearing your proposed solution, noting that we have assumed you completed a VR calculation on this job, and we were not informed of any issues, and proceeded with the installation as normal.
Please note that we have completed a calculation based on Guy’s suggestion to upgrade the inverter cable to 10mm, however we think this would still be very close to 3% VR.
Thanks in advance for your time.
Thanks & Regards
Jason Burns"
George, Julie, Leonie & Sean - Kotara, Newcastle
DIY 11.5M 1979 Bedford, Nissan/UD FE6T motor
DIY 11.5M 1979 Bedford, Nissan/UD FE6T motor
-
- Posts: 9025
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:16 pm
- Location: Rutherglen, Vic.
- Has thanked: 28 times
- Been thanked: 61 times
Re: Solar quotes for our house
Is that a classic flick-pass? 
Regards & God bless,
Ray
--
"Insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Isaac Asimov, "The Last Question"
"I refuse to drink water, because of the disgusting things fish do in it"
W.C.Fields
Ray
--
"Insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Isaac Asimov, "The Last Question"
"I refuse to drink water, because of the disgusting things fish do in it"
W.C.Fields
-
- Posts: 15963
- Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:44 pm
- Location: Mannum South Australia by the beautiful Murray River
- Has thanked: 50 times
- Been thanked: 30 times
Re: Solar quotes for our house
We attended a Tindo Solar promotional afternoon yesterday. we only went to check out the second hand 250w panels they had for $100ea but this function was on so we slotted ourselves in on the invite list
Got a full tour of the factory, a front row seat to listen to all those giving a presentation and scored a $50 note for $10 when the presenter was trying to make a statement about "he who hesitates is lost" and "fortune favours the bold" sort of thing. I quickly realised where the whole selling a $50 note for $10 was going so I got the $10 out real quick
I mentioned I also had a $20 but he said he didn't have any more $50 notes for sale
There was a lot of squirming and position shifting when I brought up the grid over voltage problem shutting down grid feed inverters so no solid payback scenario could be accurately predicted to each of the reps after the event. I did suggest the solar direct to the battery and the inverter powered from there and it got a lot of raised eyebrows and note writing to investigate whether the battery could be feeding into the grid via the inverter after normal sundown when the grid voltage had dropped but the household had been powered by the battery during the peak power period when the buy in power was the highest.
I also found out that even though Tindo panels were not Tier 1 suppliers, they did meet the clean energy council requirements and were certified acceptable. This means we can use Tindo panels for the off grid jobs we do and the owners can apply for the rebates and get finance through a mob who are the middlemen for financing from the clean Energy Council. So a great day all round
T1 Terry



There was a lot of squirming and position shifting when I brought up the grid over voltage problem shutting down grid feed inverters so no solid payback scenario could be accurately predicted to each of the reps after the event. I did suggest the solar direct to the battery and the inverter powered from there and it got a lot of raised eyebrows and note writing to investigate whether the battery could be feeding into the grid via the inverter after normal sundown when the grid voltage had dropped but the household had been powered by the battery during the peak power period when the buy in power was the highest.
I also found out that even though Tindo panels were not Tier 1 suppliers, they did meet the clean energy council requirements and were certified acceptable. This means we can use Tindo panels for the off grid jobs we do and the owners can apply for the rebates and get finance through a mob who are the middlemen for financing from the clean Energy Council. So a great day all round
T1 Terry
A person may fail many times, they only become a failure when they blame someone else John Burrows
Those who struggle to become a leader, rarely know a clear direction forward for anyone but themselves
Those who struggle to become a leader, rarely know a clear direction forward for anyone but themselves
-
- Posts: 3284
- Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:21 pm
- Location: Kotara, Newcastle
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
Re: Solar quotes for our house
Things are looking good in that the installer has been asked by Arise to quote on the installation of 10mm cable between the meter box and inverter in lieu of the existing 4mm.
George
George
George, Julie, Leonie & Sean - Kotara, Newcastle
DIY 11.5M 1979 Bedford, Nissan/UD FE6T motor
DIY 11.5M 1979 Bedford, Nissan/UD FE6T motor
-
- Posts: 3284
- Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:21 pm
- Location: Kotara, Newcastle
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
Re: Solar quotes for our house
This morning, at 9:30 DST, I switched the solar off, measured the grid voltage at the meter box of the house at the front of the block (20 metres from the mains) and got a reading of 246V and the reading at our meterbox was also 246V. Reconnected the solar and the voltage at our meterbox was 251. The solar AC voltage output then showed 254V.
With the compulsory output reduction voltage being anything above 250V it would seem that I will never get full output from the system.
George
With the compulsory output reduction voltage being anything above 250V it would seem that I will never get full output from the system.
George
George, Julie, Leonie & Sean - Kotara, Newcastle
DIY 11.5M 1979 Bedford, Nissan/UD FE6T motor
DIY 11.5M 1979 Bedford, Nissan/UD FE6T motor
-
- Posts: 4676
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:37 pm
- Location: bedford
- Has thanked: 42 times
- Been thanked: 36 times
Re: Solar quotes for our house
George,
As spoken about. Once all the cabling is solved, the only way left is for them to use a lower tap on the pole transformer.
As spoken about. Once all the cabling is solved, the only way left is for them to use a lower tap on the pole transformer.
-
- Posts: 3284
- Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:21 pm
- Location: Kotara, Newcastle
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
Re: Solar quotes for our house
Jon, I am waiting for the cabling to be resolved prior to contacting Ausgrid regarding the grid voltage.
George
George
George, Julie, Leonie & Sean - Kotara, Newcastle
DIY 11.5M 1979 Bedford, Nissan/UD FE6T motor
DIY 11.5M 1979 Bedford, Nissan/UD FE6T motor
-
- Posts: 15963
- Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:44 pm
- Location: Mannum South Australia by the beautiful Murray River
- Has thanked: 50 times
- Been thanked: 30 times
Re: Solar quotes for our house
.... unless you add a battery in between the solar and the inverter. Charge the battery from the solar while the grid voltage is high, then sell the stored capacity back to the grid when the voltage drops after the sun goes down.Newcastle George wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:24 am This morning, at 9:30 DST, I switched the solar off, measured the grid voltage at the meter box of the house at the front of the block (20 metres from the mains) and got a reading of 246V and the reading at our meterbox was also 246V. Reconnected the solar and the voltage at our meterbox was 251. The solar AC voltage output then showed 254V.
With the compulsory output reduction voltage being anything above 250V it would seem that I will never get full output from the system.
George
In South Australia, they are subsidising these battery installs to sort the grid over voltage problem as well as build a virtual grid supply network that can power the grid in you local area in the case of a failure on the grid supply to your area. This keeps all the rooftop solar within the area working and the network of household batteries acts as the voltage and frequency stabiliser .... something the grid can't do at the moment even with the gold plating where they upgraded the wrong things

Sadly, until the top level narrow minded engineers and those that are financially attached to coal fire power are retired, the problem will not be sorted until the whole grid starts to collapse and people start getting fired to save political embarrassment. That will produce a patch it repair, it will require the political problem to be sorted or fired at the next election to get anything long term sorted.
T1 Terry
A person may fail many times, they only become a failure when they blame someone else John Burrows
Those who struggle to become a leader, rarely know a clear direction forward for anyone but themselves
Those who struggle to become a leader, rarely know a clear direction forward for anyone but themselves