Lithium Again.

[Greynomad]

Details please, Bernie?

[BernieQ2]

Need some time Ray I also belong to a aviation forum ..
Bernie .

[BernieQ2]

A snippet Ray . January 2018 .
Bernie .

Australia's first electric aircraft has begun test flights at Perth's Jandakot Airport, amid hopes the plane will be flying to nearby Rottnest Island within months.

The two-seater single-engine Alpha Electro — designed and manufactured by European company Pipistrel — has two batteries that can keep the plane in the air for an hour, with an extra 30 minutes in reserve.

The team which purchased and imported the plane into Australia says while there are environmental benefits in doing away with jet fuel, electric planes are also safer and easier to fly.

"Electric propulsion is a lot simpler than a petrol engine," Electro.Aero founder Joshua Portlock said.

https://youtu.be/FSp7Qd1muZc I don't know if this link works but its from 2008 trike fling in Tassie electric only .
To much tread driff to find the post about commercial electric aircraft .

[T1 Terry]

Here is one from 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txBBl8Y1lHg and since then there have been around the world manned flights etc
I'm guessing the race for the fastest non stop solar/electric round the world flight will start to hot up soon with better light weight batteries and more efficient solar hitting the market.
Add to that, the re-emergence of the Zeppelin as a cargo carrier and also a luxury air cruiser for passengers not in a hurry but want to live it up while travelling. These are solar/electric powered as well and can actually produce their own hydrogen as required so they don't need to carry heavy gas cylinders but rather collect water or use recycled water.

[T1 Terry]

Not going to argue with you Terry you know to much for me to address the technical side of things. But super/ultra capacitors are already in EV's and the linked articles will show where they are at and where they are headed and there are many others that put the super capacitor as the next thing in energy storage, along with smaller solid state lithium. Solid state batteries and capacitors using graphene in them, will revolutionise the EV and energy storage industries, unless they come up with something better than graphene. Doubt that will happen, graphene is cheaply derived from seed oils and other things, it's the strongest material we know, is also the greatest conductor, they are already experimenting with it in lithium, solid state and capacitors.

This will reduce weight, the need for cooling system and price. Mt late mate always said, never dismiss anything until it's fully proven one way or the other. He claimed more than a decade ago that capacitors and graphene were the things which would drive the next generation of energy use and storage and he was working in that direction and made some excellent experiments work. You can even make graphene capacitors in your home, link is attached.

The number of people who ridiculed him and me, was large, especially the supposed qualified knowledgeable ones. Yet all he discovered and experimented with, has come to be and it will be the same with capacitors and graphene. If he were still around, bet he would be experimenting with things that most wouldn't even have heard of or envisaged. Just glad I knew someone who always looked ahead and worked ahead, as I do, but in a more mundane ways compared to slowhands.

Agree with you in regard to air/aluminium, but haven't dismissed it, even if it doesn't work and hope it doesn't, otherwise it will mean vehicle energy will be controlled by the same morons as now. But what comes out of it technologically, will drive other inventions because of the knowledge gained and that could mean things like, non corroding aluminum, supper strong fire proof aluminium etc.

I have a lith-ion 21 year old battery in my video camera, it still works excellently but has lost some of it's capacity. Thought it had died because it was going flat rather than maintain its energy, so bought a new one which has 3 times the capacity. However being as curious as I am, put the old battery on the charger and it worked. In the past had left the battery in the camera, so decided to see if that would make a difference by taking it off the camera when not using it. That was about a year ago and the battery still has the charge to drive the camera and the camera says it is fully charged. When thinking about it, realised had never used the camera until the battery went flat, always put it on the charger when stopped recording, that way it was always ready to go and it's still going after 21 years. but hadn't used it for a couple of years and it went flat. In my mind, lithium are proven for 20 years treated right and it will be interesting to see how long they actually last. Reckon about 25 years for decent capacity, after than all down hill, but we will see in 4 years time with my camera, will continue to use the old battery to see it's degradation.

These links are interesting, if you haven't seen them, as is "inside ev's" where the advancement in ev technology is rapid and includes super capacitors.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrobers ... 674f742767

https://www.androidauthority.com/solid- ... ry-978899/

https://news.mit.edu/2019/enriching-sol ... p-mit-0711

https://westfieldavs.com/graphene-supercapacitor/

https://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a ... capacitor/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar3C5JgzhgE

Not sure if I posted this before about the "Super Capacitor Battery" http://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5486 seems the super capacitor part of the claim has been completely debunked, it is an LTO lithium battery at best with an unknown capacity because the "tests" always seem to cut the whole thing short rather than actually keeping it going till the capacity is realised and the voltage drops off.
The do use super capacitors in the VFD (variable frequency drive) units required to power the electric motor and therefore are involved with the regen process, but this is used in the process to change AC to DC and DC to AC rather than as an actual battery capacity device or even as a slow current release device. More used for surge currents to ensure the sudden demand is met to stop surges in the supply to the motor under rapid acceleration, there is a time delay involved trying to get the current out of the cells and up the cables, milli seconds but still a delay that is not acceptable for modern electronics.
No ultra capacitors in electric vehicles yet, no way to keep them cool enough for them to work as ultra capacitors, so they are still stuck in the lab and very high power electronics area where that can be liquid nitrogen cooled

T1 Terry

[Toolman]

Shanghai has a fleet of Supercapacitor buses, it is real cool to see them take on a charge at each stop.They are not new as they have had them for many years.

[Greynomad]

Looks like I might be driving an electric m/h from Coober Pedy to William Ck and back sooner than I thought!
Watched the electric trike video, and a few yank ones which followed...
The Hobart blokes were far more adventurous on their test flight than the yanks, who only lifted 10ft or less off the ground! Wusses!!
The electric plane service Perth—Rottnest looks a goer.

One comment: it seems prop design has a lot to do with the noise of the flights. The Hobart boys' trike seemed to me just as noisy as a Rotax-powered one, whereas some of the yank trikes & planes are almost silent.

[T1 Terry]

The claim that super capacitors will replace lithium batteries has been around for as long as lithium batteries, but basic physics says it can not do so yet. https://www.supercaptech.com/battery-vs-supercapacitor The small capacity to weight that a super capacitor can achieve in comparison to an LTO lithium cell means they have a long way to go before they can actually break even on the storage per kg, LTO already as an incredible cycle life so the super capacitor doesn't offer anything new there either.
The Chinese bus fleet has a range from charge to charge of about 5kms on flat ground, yet the capacitor bank compared to the equivalent LTO battery bank would be anywhere from 10 times to 26 times the weight. Surely it would be smarter to pulse charge the LTO battery pack at each stop (more than 20 times faster charging than CCCV charging) during the slow down, time stopped and launch from the bus stop. This would reduce the weight, increase the range between required recharges and the pack could be fully charged at the end of day over night ready for the next day.
A tear down of one of these super capacitor powered buses would be interesting, I'd be surprised if there wasn't also an LTO battery pack in there as well.
The price tag difference between super capacitors and LTO cells when comparing stored capacity would make the super caps financially non viable as well.

[T1 Terry]

Something that came up on the Super Capacitor Battery thread on the AEVA forum recently regarding the life expectancy of the super caps that I hadn't realised and will become an issue with the VFD units in electric vehicles, "real caps have a limited life of 10 to 15yrs because they dry out"
Yet to see just how long these LYP cells we use will continue to hold their 100% rated capacity, a bit over 8 yrs and still holding 100% capacity is as much info as we have for our real life testing for systems used in full time house supply, the next service/test isn't scheduled for another 2 yrs so they will be 11yrs plus full time service by then and hopefully still at 100% capacity.

T1 Terry

[supersparky]

T1, you are crediting me with a tag line that I stole from elsewhere.
If the caps in the EV vfd's are similar to any of the types in industrial use, it will become like a changeover service. Drive it in and pickup when complete. The hard part with the big industrial types are removing and reinstalling the complete drive. I reckon that as time goes by and EV 'S become more accepted it will be done like an auto trans service is these days. Just depends I suppose, on if the design engineers think that far ahead. As we all know some designers forget that things need maintaining.