Drop in technology

[grizzzman]

You can buy drop in batteries that will do that job, but the price will take your breath away. Cheaper for us to build a 100Ah battery and minimum control system all in a box that can be installed in place of the existing battery. We are experimenting with the Electrodacus SBMS0 controlling various relays that could separate the charging from the load so each were turned off as required rather than either on or off like the drop ins are now. The Hino is the guinea pig for this experiment, the last 120 amp all in one unit cost us a set of cells barely 12 mths old, so testing can be expensive

T1 Terry

Any update with the SBMS0 Install? Mine has been shipped. There is a "green" ElectroDacus (China prototype) SBMS40 by "3D brothers edition” I received to evaluate. It was rebuilt to be mass-produced. (Dacian's layered design is not mass produce friendly) unfortunately, its ability to track amps correctly was not accurate. (I verified this issue with another tester) When I brought this issue to the sponsor, it landed on Deaf ears... Dacian on the other hand is quick to respond. (A big deal in my mind). I hope all is well on your side of the pond.

[T1 Terry]

Busy as a one armed wall paper hanger at the moment, so testing is on the stand by at the moment. Once I finish putting the 1800w of solar on the roof of this Swagman and wiring up the two separate Victron controllers (getting the cabling down from the roof for the second array is proving a challenge at the moment) I can get back to running the cables between the battery bin and the inverter bin (2 x 12-3000-120) Victron Multiplus) and then I can wire the two Victron MPPT controllers to the Electrodacus SBMS0 and the shunts for that so I can see if it comes up with the same numbers as the Victron BMV and the two MPPT controllers ..... I can also check if it does turn the MPPT controllers on/off as well as the inverters if the low SOC point is reached ...... lucky it will be easier to use than it is to install
As this is a Betta test unit it will have two separate fail safe back up systems running in parallel, 800Ah @ 12v would certainly hurt the bank account if we had to do a warranty at our cost ....

So, at the moment it can see the cell voltages, do its cell balancing thing, switch the charging on/off via a mains power contactor and send out the info to a smart phone. Bad points at the moment:
It doesn't seem to want to play well with the Victron 500 amp shunt at the moment, but that might be my poor programming rather than the SBMS0's fault
If more than one smart phone tries to connect to it the whole thing seems to lock up and not talk to anyone ... still a work in progress to stop that happening. With 3 people and 6 devices all wanting in on the action (phones and computers) it isn't really a surprise it's having issues

T1 Terry

[supersparky]

If we go right back to the OP, I am constantly amazed by the number of people that I meet out on the road that have drop in lithiums, but can't tell you how much they charge or discharge, but just know that they are fully charged by 9am and everythingng is perfect. But when you ask what they are powering overnight, or what BMS they have, most don't even realise that I am taking the piss, and don't have anything on once the tv is shut down at 8.30pm.
I still haven't seen a pic that I can believe is really what is inside one on those mainstream lithium drop ins.

[grizzzman]

Busy as a one armed wall paper hanger at the moment, so testing is on the stand by at the moment. Once I finish putting the 1800w of solar on the roof of this Swagman and wiring up the two separate Victron controllers (getting the cabling down from the roof for the second array is proving a challenge at the moment) I can get back to running the cables between the battery bin and the inverter bin (2 x 12-3000-120) Victron Multiplus) and then I can wire the two Victron MPPT controllers to the Electrodacus SBMS0 and the shunts for that so I can see if it comes up with the same numbers as the Victron BMV and the two MPPT controllers ..... I can also check if it does turn the MPPT controllers on/off as well as the inverters if the low SOC point is reached ...... lucky it will be easier to use than it is to install
As this is a Betta test unit it will have two separate fail safe back up systems running in parallel, 800Ah @ 12v would certainly hurt the bank account if we had to do a warranty at our cost ....

So, at the moment it can see the cell voltages, do its cell balancing thing, switch the charging on/off via a mains power contactor and send out the info to a smart phone. Bad points at the moment:
It doesn't seem to want to play well with the Victron 500 amp shunt at the moment, but that might be my poor programming rather than the SBMS0's fault
If more than one smart phone tries to connect to it the whole thing seems to lock up and not talk to anyone ... still a work in progress to stop that happening. With 3 people and 6 devices all wanting in on the action (phones and computers) it isn't really a surprise it's having issues

T1 Terry

Sounds like you have your hands full. I'm sure glad that my system is much simpler

[grizzzman]

If we go right back to the OP, I am constantly amazed by the number of people that I meet out on the road that have drop in lithiums, but can't tell you how much they charge or discharge, but just know that they are fully charged by 9am and everythingng is perfect. But when you ask what they are powering overnight, or what BMS they have, most don't even realise that I am taking the piss, and don't have anything on once the tv is shut down at 8.30pm.
I still haven't seen a pic that I can believe is really what is inside one on those mainstream lithium drop ins.

Look up Will Prowse on utube. He has torn down a fair amount of drop-ins. There is a large amount of under-preforming/under-built junk drop-ins out there.

[Chris61]

You can buy drop in batteries that will do that job, but the price will take your breath away. Cheaper for us to build a 100Ah battery and minimum control system all in a box that can be installed in place of the existing battery. We are experimenting with the Electrodacus SBMS0 controlling various relays that could separate the charging from the load so each were turned off as required rather than either on or off like the drop ins are now. The Hino is the guinea pig for this experiment, the last 120 amp all in one unit cost us a set of cells barely 12 mths old, so testing can be expensive

T1 Terry

I have my SBMS0 up and running as a very basic unit, I have it hooked up to turn off solar (I do have 3 NC relays that can turn off solar, dc-dc charger and 240v, though not installed) and all 12v loads. Time is my biggest enemy as I'm trying to get some lawn laid around the house, while the weather is fine. I will a couple of months before I can find some more time.

I am very much a beginner, but I am confident with what I have done so far (famous last words though)

[T1 Terry]

If we go right back to the OP, I am constantly amazed by the number of people that I meet out on the road that have drop in lithiums, but can't tell you how much they charge or discharge, but just know that they are fully charged by 9am and everythingng is perfect. But when you ask what they are powering overnight, or what BMS they have, most don't even realise that I am taking the piss, and don't have anything on once the tv is shut down at 8.30pm.
I still haven't seen a pic that I can believe is really what is inside one on those mainstream lithium drop ins.

Look up Will Prowse on utube. He has torn down a fair amount of drop-ins. There is a large amount of under-preforming/under-built junk drop-ins out there.

The biggest problem with Will Prowse's testing is the load he tests them at, might be enough for a full 12v system, but not enough to power an inverter of any reasonable capacity .... one that will power the air fryer or microwave or air conditioner for example ... or mums hair dryer
A 0.05CA load or 50 amps per 100Ah capacity is the minimum a lithium battery should be able to provide and still give the full capacity without a cell dropping below 2.8v while still under the 0.05CA load. This sort of testing would show the failings of linking multiple 12v drop in batteries in parallel rather than building the one battery from multiple cells in parallel to build the capacity, then these groups in series to build the voltage.

T1 Terry

[T1 Terry]

You can buy drop in batteries that will do that job, but the price will take your breath away. Cheaper for us to build a 100Ah battery and minimum control system all in a box that can be installed in place of the existing battery. We are experimenting with the Electrodacus SBMS0 controlling various relays that could separate the charging from the load so each were turned off as required rather than either on or off like the drop ins are now. The Hino is the guinea pig for this experiment, the last 120 amp all in one unit cost us a set of cells barely 12 mths old, so testing can be expensive

T1 Terry

I have my SBMS0 up and running as a very basic unit, I have it hooked up to turn off solar (I do have 3 NC relays that can turn off solar, dc-dc charger and 240v, though not installed) and all 12v loads. Time is my biggest enemy as I'm trying to get some lawn laid around the house, while the weather is fine. I will a couple of months before I can find some more time.

I am very much a beginner, but I am confident with what I have done so far (famous last words though)

Hi Chris, what relays are you using to control the solar? Dacian wasn't keen on me using any relays other than his 20 amp solid state relays, claiming the load on the driver transistor in the SBMS0 would be in excess of the rated continuous operating parameters.
When I said I was using quality 100 amp solid state relays he couldn't believe that I could buy them at around the same price as he was selling his solid state relays

T1 Terry

[BernieQ2]

When I had my caravan I had bought a drop in 100amp LIFO from Victron plus their solar controller with (Wi-Fi) that was handy.
With 250w of solar on the roof plus another 250w on the Jeep on about 20Ft of 6BnS.Anderson plug when required.
Its whole purpose was to keep the fridge going (non soft start) Stirling from ALDIE's .
It worked as intended. Nothing else was on that battery.
We don't have any use for microwave or 240v for kettle, gas does the cooking and heating.
When the present battery's die I will probably go down the same path but with 200amp.
Bernie.

[T1 Terry]

When I had my caravan I had bought a drop in 100amp LIFO from Victron plus their solar controller with (Wi-Fi) that was handy.
With 250w of solar on the roof plus another 250w on the Jeep on about 20Ft of 6BnS.Anderson plug when required.
Its whole purpose was to keep the fridge going (non soft start) Stirling from ALDIE's .
It worked as intended. Nothing else was on that battery.
We don't have any use for microwave or 240v for kettle, gas does the cooking and heating.
When the present battery's die I will probably go down the same path but with 200amp.
Bernie.

Did you also get the rest of the Victron gear that is designed to integrate all the charging and loads between the battery (ies) and the RV? This is one of the very few "drop in" battery systems that do work, but the $$ involved chase of most punters looking for a drop in battery. Watching the video on how to set up one of their multiple drop in battery sets makes it a lot more complex than just pulling the old AGM's out and dropping in the lithium batteries in their place .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW_xDerTycQ this same person does videos on installing multiple Victron batteries.

T1 Terry

NOTE: They are using semi flexable solar panels glued directly to the roof but then you see them drive the van out into the snow .... a tad different to Australian solar conditions .... I very much recommend NOT following this advice .... it will turn into a very expensive exercise if you do, the heat generated under the panels has no where to go and the solder in the grid that connects the individual modules together (to generate sufficient volts and amps) actually overheats and fails rendering the panel useless ..... we have a lot of them here if anyone wants to do the testing themselves

T1 Terry