OH Crappppp

[jon_d]

Luckily,

with petrol cars, if the tank ruptures there is a good chance it won't burn. It needs a spark to start..... oh no, that's a hybrid.

[2foot6]

Kia and Hyundai petrol cars are bursting into flames without an accident, so at least you may have time to escape. I guess any vehicle is a risk to drive if something goes wrong but a hot lithium fire under my bum doesn't do much for me if I could not be extricated because the battery plug was under me. My BIL just bought a Kia hybrid demo(2 years old) and the battery has been changed because the vehicle does not have fuel figures as advertised. A two man job in special suits and breathing apparatus in an isolated area.If and when I go for a battery car I want this option...so much easier............................

66376626_10206262570319850_6178021945162858496_n.jpg

Go figure....

[supersparky]

Dot, that post from NZ is mostly full of less than factual info. As a licenced electrician we regularly had to glove up to do certain tasks. So we did. It's not really that big of a deal.
Back in the day, when I used to drive towtrucks, the first thing we used to do upon arrival at a bad smash was to cut the battery leads. Mainly as a precaution. If the car was on LPG we were expected to turn off the gas cylinder as well.
There is always a danger of something not going to plan, but mainly you just deal with it and move on to the next hurdle. Because there is always some prick ready to try to trip you up.

[jon_d]

The worse electric vehicle accident I've ever seen was a Hyundai that rolled off a trailer.

[Dot]

Dot, that post from NZ is mostly full of less than factual info. As a licenced electrician we regularly had to glove up to do certain tasks. So we did. It's not really that big of a deal.
Back in the day, when I used to drive towtrucks, the first thing we used to do upon arrival at a bad smash was to cut the battery leads. Mainly as a precaution. If the car was on LPG we were expected to turn off the gas cylinder as well.
There is always a danger of something not going to plan, but mainly you just deal with it and move on to the next hurdle. Because there is always some prick ready to try to trip you up.

I passed it on because I had no idea of what they were talking about. Thought some of you would

[BernieQ2]

It was on Facebook about a week ago.
Bernie.

[T1 Terry]

OFF FB

If you think electric cars are doing your bit please read this.
So much for electric cars from an NZ mechanic!
Had to work on a Nissan leaf last week. A $30,000 car with a crook battery.
No one in town would work on it and as he had done a course it was given to him. He got the tutor up from Dunedin polytech to help.
One crook module in the battery was shorting to the case. A secondhand module is able to be fitted, but they need to be in exactly the same condition as the remaining ones (85.2%) or the entire battery fails.
So the owner was left with the option of a secondhand battery out of a wreck that has no guarantee at $14,000 or a new battery at $20,000.
Then there is the problem of disposing of the old battery or part battery. Nothing is available and No-one willing to transport a damaged battery.
Specialist transport is available, and the cost to have one module (out of 24) transported to Australia and disposed of is around $5,000.
On top of all that, the tutor went through some of the legislation around EVs with him.
So if one is involved in a crash, and people are trapped inside, the fire brigade has to isolate the battery before they cut into the car.
In a leaf, the isolation plug is under a bolted cover on the floor between the front and back seats. Once the cover is removed, the 3 pairs of gloves required by law are to be fitted, cotton, rubber, and leather. Then with hands resembling lamb roasts they can try and disconnect the 3 stage electrical plug. Then they can cut into the car.
So the problem with crashing any EV is that if you are trapped, you're dead, as it is impossible to remove victims. Also can't put a battery fire out. Water makes lithium burn. They forgot to tell you this part!

The fossil fuel industry is really clutching at straws now How to isolate the Nissan Leaf HV battery, https://www.boronextrication.com/2011/1 ... ssan-leaf/ No special gloves required, that fuse in the fuse holder is in a plastic assembly designed to protect anyone from getting the slightest zap from the circuit .... you are more likely to get zapped accessing the house fusebox and resetting the house circuit breaker or replacing a fuse in the older systems than you are getting zapped by the EV battery. If there is a short for what ever reason, that is a high rupture capacity fuse in that holder, a sudden peak won't trip it, but a short circuit will blow the fuse and a compound is released to completely seal the gap between each connection so no arc can form.

Next, the B/S about the replacement cell, there is no requirement for the replacement cell to be the same capacity, it should be equal or greater capacity than the rest of the pack, but that's it. Fully charge all the cells including the replacement cell, and bolt it all back together. The computer will even tell you which cell has a problem, long before it actually fails completely.

The old lithium fire B/S, yes, pure lithium will burn when exposed to water, EV traction batteries aren't built using pure lithium, the expense would be mind blowing and it would be totally impractical, because it just wouldn't work for very long, it requires the other elements in the compound to stabilise it and achieve a respectable cycle life.

Can't put out a lithium battery fire Really, you wouldn't be the sharpest tool in the shed if you attempted to put out any electrical fire with water, an EV electrical fire is no different, but a bucket of sand will do the trick, the heat melts it to form glass, this seals the battery surface and the fire will go out once the battery cools ....
This is a Tesla battery cell pack installed by someone who didn't have a clue just what they were doing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q no one is dead, they managed to push the little car outside and believe it or not, the local fire brigade pumped water on it till it cooled and stopped exploding cells. So it appears, you can put a lithium battery fire out ......

The numb nuts that wrote that bit of B/S probably had his laptop computer right in front of him with his face over it .... they are lithium battery powered, the same as the smart watch on a lot of wrists, but no one carries on about how dangerous they are, do they ......

The fossil fuel industry is doomed and they know it, the last resort is mis-information and scare tactics, the truth certainly would help their cause ..... ever seen that burnt out wreck on the side of a highway that was once a truck that caught fire, ask any fire fighter how you put out a big diesel fire ......

T1 Terry

[Dot]

saw this and thought it may be of interest. Shall try to get the pics as wellAugust 28 at 8:07 PM ·
A timely warning about rechargeable lithium ion batteries...
Earlier this week at 20 minutes after midnight a lithium ion battery that was part of my head torch and was being charged, exploded and ignited. We were awoken by a screaming fire alarm. We could see flames in a second bedroom and when I looked in from the bedroom doorway I saw my 2 backpack camera bags were alight, one bag totally engulfed in flames. I endeavoured to pull the larger bag, which was not burning so intensely, away from the other bag but the flames were too intense. Margaret headed straight for the laundry and met me at the bedroom door with the 4.5kg dry powder extinguisher. A 3-4 second squirt from the extinguisher put the fire out. During the cleanup soon after, we discovered that one of 2 batteries in the head torch was not there. The positive top of the battery was found on an adjacent table about 450mm away and the burnt out battery case was located near the smaller camera bag. The exploding battery had blown the head torch off the cabinet on to the carpeted floor (thankfully woollen berber doesn't burn), disconnecting from the recharging plug. A terribly frightening situation given that the battery had been on charge for 2 days, which was the normal time it took to be fully charged. We were shaken but thankful that we had definitely been looked after with all the right things working as they should and the extinguisher in an easy to get location. The whole incident, from the time we were awoken by the alarm to when the fire was out, took about 15 seconds. A bedspread adjacent to the camera bags was just starting to burn as was a cardboard carton under the table.
Since the fire I have looked at reports about lithium battery fires and lithium batteries and would offer the same advice as these fire investigators and some battery retailers offer... not just advice but what should happen each time you intend to recharge lithium ion or lithium phosphate or any other lithium chemistry battery....
1. Never leave the battery out of your sight while on charge
2. If possible, recharge using a dedicated LiPO bag to contain the battery during charging
3. Never, never leave a battery to charge overnight when you are asleep...this includes your mobile phone, power tool batteries and electric scooters and bikes, whether in a LiPO bag or not....turn it off and start over the next day
4. Never leave a recharging battery on charge if you are not at home, unless the battery is outside, on a hard surface and away from combustible materials.
5. At the minimum, have a charged dry powder fire extinguisher on hand or handy and know how to use it. It won't put out the burning lithium but will prevent the fire spreading to anything combustible nearby.
I will include a few photos of some of the aftermath. The white powder is from the extinguisher.

lith pic.jpg

lith pic 5.jpg

lith pic 4.jpg

lith pic 3.jpg

lith pic 2.jpg

lith pic 6.jpg

[T1 Terry]

saw this and thought it may be of interest. Shall try to get the pics as wellAugust 28 at 8:07 PM ·
A timely warning about rechargeable lithium ion batteries...
Earlier this week at 20 minutes after midnight a lithium ion battery that was part of my head torch and was being charged, exploded and ignited. We were awoken by a screaming fire alarm. We could see flames in a second bedroom and when I looked in from the bedroom doorway I saw my 2 backpack camera bags were alight, one bag totally engulfed in flames. I endeavoured to pull the larger bag, which was not burning so intensely, away from the other bag but the flames were too intense. Margaret headed straight for the laundry and met me at the bedroom door with the 4.5kg dry powder extinguisher. A 3-4 second squirt from the extinguisher put the fire out. During the cleanup soon after, we discovered that one of 2 batteries in the head torch was not there. The positive top of the battery was found on an adjacent table about 450mm away and the burnt out battery case was located near the smaller camera bag. The exploding battery had blown the head torch off the cabinet on to the carpeted floor (thankfully woollen berber doesn't burn), disconnecting from the recharging plug. A terribly frightening situation given that the battery had been on charge for 2 days, which was the normal time it took to be fully charged. We were shaken but thankful that we had definitely been looked after with all the right things working as they should and the extinguisher in an easy to get location. The whole incident, from the time we were awoken by the alarm to when the fire was out, took about 15 seconds. A bedspread adjacent to the camera bags was just starting to burn as was a cardboard carton under the table.
Since the fire I have looked at reports about lithium battery fires and lithium batteries and would offer the same advice as these fire investigators and some battery retailers offer... not just advice but what should happen each time you intend to recharge lithium ion or lithium phosphate or any other lithium chemistry battery....
1. Never leave the battery out of your sight while on charge
2. If possible, recharge using a dedicated LiPO bag to contain the battery during charging
3. Never, never leave a battery to charge overnight when you are asleep...this includes your mobile phone, power tool batteries and electric scooters and bikes, whether in a LiPO bag or not....turn it off and start over the next day
4. Never leave a recharging battery on charge if you are not at home, unless the battery is outside, on a hard surface and away from combustible materials.
5. At the minimum, have a charged dry powder fire extinguisher on hand or handy and know how to use it. It won't put out the burning lithium but will prevent the fire spreading to anything combustible nearby.
I will include a few photos of some of the aftermath. The white powder is from the extinguisher.
lith pic.jpg
lith pic 5.jpglith pic 4.jpglith pic 3.jpglith pic 2.jpglith pic 6.jpg

Typical uninformed B/S. Lithium ion is the class of battery chemical reaction, like lead acid batteries. Under that umbrella there are a lot of chemical combinations and not all of them burst into flames or explode. So putting the blanket of "lithium ion" as the first type of lithium battery clearly shows they don't have a clue ... then listing lithium phosphate as a potential fire/explosion risk is complete nonsense and could even get the author in some serious problem with a deformation case ..... lithium ferrous phosphate and lithium titanate oxide are the two lithium chemistries that don't burst into flame or explode ..... they wouldn't implant them in people to power nerve pain blockers or pace makers if they exploded when recharging, would they ....

The whole blurb under that piece of false fact is by and large about the real problem chemistry that is giving lithium batteries the bad name, LiPo or lithium polymer https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/defin ... battery%20(LiPo,a%20lithium%20ion%20polymer%20battery. and these things do explode if not charged and discharged safely using a reliable cell voltage monitoring BMS (Battery management System) All these battery fires in small appliances and electric bikes and scooters are caused by the lack of a proper BMS to manage the cells.
Because these are all cheaper Chinese products where cutting costs is everything, the BMS is the part that gets minimised or even left out entirely.

The thing to look for is cell voltage, if it is 3.7v nom. it's a potential hand grenade just waiting for the pin to be pulled. This voltage covers, LiPo, lithium cobalt in all its mixtures and NMC https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/lithi ... %20storage. I certainly wouldn't be mounting an NMC battery anywhere inside a house or motorhome, nor would I build a DIY EV using these cells, the battery management required is incredible, including cell cooling and heating using the vehicle air conditioning to carry the coolant heat away or provide the heat if required because the cell temp was too low ..... this is what Tesla do, yet they are now moving away from cobalt in their cell chemistry, so that says a lot about their concerns about the long term safety of using this in any lithium battery chemistry .....

Lithium batteries are safe, as long as you follow the requirements to keep them within their safe operating range, lead acid batteries and NiMh batteries are the same, over charge them and you are looking for a rather nasty surprise, lead acid batteries being the most dangerous because of the perfect mix of hydrogen and oxygen to create a very rapid high temperature fire, that is basically what an explosion is after all .....

T1 Terry

[Dot]

Have been trying to find that pic of a bill of $29k for a lith battery and be blowed if I can find it??? HELP