Ocean level rise or the big freeze on half the planet?

[native pepper]

The hotter things get, the more that will be the case. The dirty brown is the dust pulled high in the air by thermal updrafts. We don't have tornadoes like the US, but we still have them, they just don't make the news unless they wreck a populated area.
When I had the big bus in the workshed at Albion Park Rail, black leaves, not burnt due to the lack of oxygen, raining down from the Canberra fires, around 200kms as the crow flies, and had to have enough uplift to clear the mountains, those leaves rained down all the way out to the coast and where being washed up for days, the winds can carry heavy stuff for a long way, dust is much easier and even seen on the Antarctic ice, accelerating the melting because the ice reflection is lost ......

If the dust and other pollution can make it all the way to the Antarctic ice now, that puts pay to cooling winds from the ice being the prevailing weather conditions, more the very hot air heading for the cooler regions .....
If the northern hemisphere big freeze does happen, the cold air over the ice will remain where it is, the warm ocean currents are the drivers for wind currents, the land masses are just too far apart to create a wind that would blow from one continent to the other ..... rich Aussies will be buying vacation houses in Europe to cool off and go skiing etc, I doubt too many over that side will want to come and melt in the Aussie heat ....

T1 Terry

Interesting scenario which could happen as it has before, however the conditions are very different to the last ice age around 12000 years ago so they say. Back then there was no pollution and no sea rise, just the opposite the seas receded becuase of the cooling and glaciers forming across southern Europe consisting of much of the fresh water on the planet and no warming conditions. The xspurts have yet to reveal why the planet cooled and why it warmed again back then, that I've read about.

Today human caused warming is causing sea rise is melting ice worldwide and even though the xspurts ( x is an unknown quantity and spurt is a big drip) claim the planet is going through a cooling period. Which could be the case theoretically, but the reality is the opposite and the planet is warming fast. How claimed cooling will result in a big freeze is not very logical considering to actual conditions the world is facing.

For a cooling to happen we'd have to get rid of the cause of warming and pollution, which is fossil fuels and their associated products and the animals that have created these problems, ideological humans. Otherwise nothing will change and no one is making any effort to do that in any way, other than babble on about doing something, but just keep increasing the problems and doing nothing but make it worse.

We have no idea what the future climate and sea rise will do or how fast it will make life difficult, but it's certainly not looking like it's cooling. Doubt any here will see the outcome, but younger people sure will see and feel the effects. Would be interesting to visit an inland sea in Aus if sea rise created that, but you'd have to fight your way through the panicking humans made homeless by sea rise, lacking food, transport and power because society collapsed.

[T1 Terry]

Would be interesting to visit an inland sea in Aus if sea rise created that, but you'd have to fight your way through the panicking humans made homeless by sea rise, lacking food, transport and power because society collapsed.

It won't happen over night, or even over a yr I'd imagine ..... but slowly low lying areas will be water logged, either by the ocean rising, or the rivers rising .... because there is not as much fall as before so there is now where for the water to flow as fast as it did in the past.
Now add in the increased surface area for evaporation and increased areas of shallow water that will heat faster than the deeper stuff, more rainfall must result, swelling already swollen rivers.

A lot of our vegies are grown in low lying areas along the rivers where the soil has been deposited over centuries, easy to get the water from the river because it doesn't need to be pumped to a great height. These will be some of the first to be affected. The demand for water licences will drop off, more likely demands the govt do something about making the river banks higher, to protect their property investments ...... that might work for a while, but eventually the rising water table will make these pieces of rich growing land, a swamp.

Maybe the smart ones will see what's happening and move their precious soil to higher ground, they will be the ones that stay productive, the others will go to the wall.

The MIA has had to pump out the salt water from under ground, virtually since it started, controlling the irrigation channel water height might become an interesting project. More dams exceeding capacity and having to release down stream won't help matters for those who bought those river side properties in the cities .... there will be a lot of shifting of property values, a lot more areas will become unsuitable for permanent housing ... maybe we will see the floating cities develop .... the logistics of moving the waste from these will be a real issue ..... the existing water supply and sewer system will be useless .... maybe the water supply system can be sorted for a few yrs, but eventually, the whole underground pipe network will fail ...... there will be plenty of rain water though

T1 Terry

[native pepper]

Agree with that scenarios Terry, probably around 1m sea rise will cause lots of chaos that most won't be expecting. One metre sea rise could happen in a year or two, or not for a decade or more, all depends on how fast glacial melt occurs and we have no idea what condition glaciers are in at the bottom of them on land. When you consider some of them are klms thick and most are held back by being stuck to the ground, when fast warming seas get further under them as they are now doing, one or two glaciers could suddenly lose their grip and slide into the sea pretty fast.

Read a year or two ago about scientists who had been recording the speed of a couple of Antarctic glaciers movement to the ocean and it went from a up to a metre a year a few decades ago to metres a day a couple of years ago. We just have to wait and see. But if one suddenly does slip really fast, we may see some pretty big and fast tidal rises which don't retreat. But all conjecture and outside our ability to predict, let alone scientists.

[Noggins]

I read this a few days ago and the cynical part of myself tends to think the author may have a few valid points.
I know some here will Diss it outright but I'm always ready to listen to both sides of any "The Science Says"

clhttps://richardsonpost.com/cliff-reece/37987/lets-make-co2-great-again/aims.


Ron

[T1 Terry]

Interesting to see fossil fuel industry changing tact, no longer denial and now moving on to the benefits Never let facts get in the way of a good spin I guess, the fact that when the earth's oxygen content was the highest, so was the level of vegetation, there wouldn't be coal to dig up if that wasn't the case. That, in turn, means an increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere doesn't mean we will have better crops, an increase in suitable water makes the biggest difference.

Granted, the hydroponic Cannabis closed system growers can get a crop from sprouted cuttings to harvest in around 6 weeks, it is more to do with the nutrients and controlled lighting than the high concentration of carbon dioxide used .... that level is lethal to oxygen dependent life forms, so pushing Co2 to that level will improve plant growth, there will be no one here to keep it in check

That is the way nature would fix the problem, kill off the cause and let things return to a better balance

T1 Terry

[native pepper]

I read this a few days ago and the cynical part of myself tends to think the author may have a few valid points.
I know some here will Diss it outright but I'm always ready to listen to both sides of any "The Science Says"

Ron

Just a couple of points Ron, true Co2 does help plants grow and they convert that Co2 to oxygen, which balances the atmosphere out.

The claim in the article that 200000 sq klms of the Sahara has been converted to "lush grassland" only seems supported but fossil fuel advocates and nowhere else could I find any scientific support for that claim.

What's interesting seems left out of Richardson's blog is 6000 years ago the Sahara was lush and green, had lakes and rivers and forests but then humans got involved, cutting down forests clearing land for cities and introducing domestic animals, along with the religious wars they fought. There was no burning of fossil fuels and the human population was small.

Today the Sahara desert is growing, not shrinking and desertification is being seen in the Amazon and once green forested areas of Africa and Sth America. As well as we are seeing it in Aus, which was once a green oasis. Yet back in those days there wasn't an imbalance between in nature and certainly no high levels of CO2, just the opposite, Oxygen levels were above today's levels as is shown in ice cores from the Antarctic.Sure there's been fluctuations in gas content of the atmosphere, but back when the planet was heavily forested, there was only small deserts.

To me it's illogical to try to claim something which has been scientifically shown to be false, but ideologues tend to do that in just about everything they do. Back when there was probably only a couple of million humans on the planet, they were mostly mostly animists and worshipped nature which is reality is the only realistic thing to follow and worship because it keeps us alive, not fossil fuels or wars against everything. Our own Indigenous back then were animist and it's only been since the introduction of ideology that things have turned pear shaped as humans cut, burnt forests and denatured land to develop their war machines and boats to expand their ideological influence over the planet.

Now the world is controlled by ideological insanity of various kinds and we are seeing the results of that approach to the future, which revolves around populate or perish and of course never ending economic growth. Irrelevant to the consequences and leads to more slash and burn and of course more humans. Humanity has gone from a couple of million living in a natural paradise of diversity and pleasantness, to 8+ billion destroying everything around them and demanding it's cool.

(It's been raining here most of the day so haven't been able to do anything of use and this post is probably not of use to anyone). But I've started so will finish it .

I'd be very interested in any supporting evidence to support the fossil fuel industries claims and as Terry has pointed out, they can't win with facts, so have to introduce deception. Personally think the reality of the world just doesn't support their claims and Co2 and other gases are having very detrimental effect on climate and all life forms.

Now here's a far fetched idea, they say Mars was once a lush green planet with lots of water and forests, now it's a Co2 saturated desert. Remember reading back in the 198os' in magazine which said maybe Martians were very advanced yet destroyed their planet with their lifestyle, so moved to earth and interbred with indigenous humans 100000 years ago. But that interbreeding didn't rid the ensuing humans from the ideological disease Martians had that pushed them outside the reality of nature and believe they could still control nature.

Oops got a bit carried away,, think the aliens have got at me

[supersparky]

This article popped up on MrGoogle this morning. Some of our members might be interested. I have no idea when this happened though.

https://www.surfer.com/news/worlds-bigg ... antarctica

[T1 Terry]

Watch these blokes surf in Iceland almost cooled me down I can't surf at all, sometime wish I'd learnt when I was young, but there is only so much you squeeze into the time you have and the $$ available.
I was surprised how dirty the water was, I pictured melting ice water to be crystal clear

https://www.surfer.com/news/surfers-dod ... es-iceland

T1 Terry

[native pepper]

Looks bloody cold, but some nice reef breaks there and the water looks lumpy, almost ice. I didn't take up surfing until my early 40's, same time went back playing and coaching AFL, took me months to really catch a good wave but once I did, it was wonderful experiences and absolutely adore it. Plus it helps me keep supple and fit, the number of muscles you use when surfing is amazing and the washing machine effect you get when you get dumped certainly stretches every muscle in your body. I get home, shower, have a lie down before eating then doing other things, my muscles still ache for the day but each day it gets less and less.

My neighbour (75), has been checking out my surfing, turns up with her dogs in her Mitsubishi Delica van, which a home away from home and a great 4x4 diesel. The other day when I came out she asked if she could try out my ski, which led to some hilarious moments for me and some dunking for her. There were a couple of old blokes riding SUP's (stand up paddle boards) and they are regulars, she said she wouldn't mind having a go at that and where she could get one. Told her and when went to Hobart Thursday she asked if I could pick up her new paddle board she'd ordered, which I did and know the bloke who sells them so she got a good deal. She turned up yesterday with it and had a terrible time because it was a decent size surf and shore break, meaning she spent all her time under water rather than above it.

This morning took her to a secluded bay where the water was calm and reasonably smooth, she go up straight away and paddle round for over an hour and I paddled my ski along with her so she felt safe. Was sitting watching her when she yelled out, "this is easy" and instantly fell off, laughed so much nearly overbalanced. But she loves it and told her would go with her to the bay each morning after had my surf until she feels comfortable enough to actually tackle waves.

[Greynomad]

Onya, NP!

I had enough fun bodysurfing in my younger days. Lived six houses from the waterfront, so snorkeling was another summer fun time.
These days the body has enough trouble staying above the surface, and arm problems mean freestyle & surfing are out of the question.