Too much electricity

[bagmaker]

Lets start a conversation on managing the excess energy that good installations produce.
The thread owes a background to T1 Terry's ongoing discriptions and educations on LiFePo4 battery installations and will intersect with these threads.
Also to the great explanations and style that he is presenting the information with.
Although he may not like it (sorry T1)

Ok, so imagine we have a great electrical setup on our rig, round figures of 400AH LiFePo4 battery @ 12v, 1000w of solar input, monitored, managed.
At some point during the day we should have the system at peak operation.
Lets call that point mid-afternoon. It may be late morning, it may be late afternoon, it may not happen at all that day due to inclement weather.
But for the debate lets say on average, mid afternoon, your battery is full and you have an incoming minimum of 50 amps of power to dispose of.
Perhaps you are in Hobart, perhaps you are in Wyndham or maybe Eucla, your specific needs will vary a little bit so be general in your thoughts

Our requirements for electrical energy are along these lines, in order-

Refridgeration (basic fridge/freezer, extra deep freeze, airconditioning, water chilling)
Cooking (including water supply, coffee makers, bread makers, cook-tops)
Hot water
Lighting
Washing / systems (clothes, etc)
Entertainment & communication

Some of you will be using propane gas or other fuel for some of these items, ignore that.
Would anyone like to add to the list?
Does anyone place any particular importance of the lower listed items above the upper ones? Its a bit general I know, Chilling water is not important but its on top as a part of Refridgeration.
One cannot have ones beer getting warm

Please discuss, more coming

[T1 Terry]

Heating is the only other thing I can think of if you are doing a total energy requirement audit. Looking forward to reading more. I have additional energy uses planned but as they are well outside the norm there is no value in adding it in here.

T1 Terry

[Busman]

I will have a go, from our perspective with some of the ideas we have incorporated into VP, using your headings.

Refridgeration (basic fridge/freezer, extra deep freeze, airconditioning, water chilling)
24 V home built Eutectic fridge freezer in bins, 240 v bar fridge in kitchen. 2 x split system aircons (smallest we could find 240 v, ice making machine in bins so maybe not so different in this area.
Cooking (including water supply, coffee makers, bread makers, cook-tops)
3 burner gas stove/oven in kitchen, gas bbq away from the awnings, stainless jug, induction hotplate, 240 v rangehood
Hot water
50 ltr domestic system heated either by 1200 w 240 v element or 3 x 400 w 24 v elements
Lighting
Approximately 30 panel lights, exterior lights, strip lights, all 24 v LED
Washing / systems (clothes, etc)
The car trailer (enclosed) has a 200 watt panel and a 24 v LA bank (2 x 12 V) with inverter to drive the domestic washing machine mounted in its own box inside the trailer. Good for drying as well so no dryer.
Entertainment & communication
1 x TV/DVD in bedroom, maybe another in lounge area, projector and surround sound, side of trailer is excellent screen, bug zapper, satellite internet and TV
Heating
Aircons are reverse cycle, enough for us, if its colder than that we are heading north !

VP also has 7 electric awnings to shade her as well as a tropical roof of solar panels. I was sitting inside yesterday, all awnings out, one aircon running off the solar ( 2Kw) and still excess going into the batteries. Good design and an excess of solar means we can have power in all but the bleakest of conditions, when we will move anyway !
Cheers
William

[wombat]

refrigeration 114ltr 24volt fridge freezer, 40ltr engle in trailer, 24 volt 5 kw split aircon.
240v induction cooktop, 25ltr convection microwave, 1ltr deep fryer, waffle maker,toaster, bread maker.
20ltr 240v water heater, diesel heater, vacuum toilet, water pump, twin tub washing machine.
bose sound dock, media centre, sat tv, chargers for phone, computer, camera still and video.
led lights in awning and through bus.
no gas in bus only bottle on trailer for the webber.
ps also run my power tools

[tomcarm]

Not wishing to divert the creative flow ... are you wanting to use the excess electricity generated whilst driving ...
An experienced camper talked of running his aircon whilst driving (thru an inverter) so that he had a cool van for lunch & on arrival at a camp ... Is this possible?
Likewise, could a bread maker or slow cooker be used to use up the excess?
OR should I be on a different thread?

[BruceS]

Seems to me to be 3 different directions being taken in this thread.??
1. How to benefit from 'wasted' energy once the batteries have recharged.
2. How to use energy generated, or could be generated, whilst travelling.
3. Explaining (bragging?) how all the generated energy can be used to the fullest.

Each one is interesting in itself!!
Me? I'm taking a small 240V pump back to the boat & will water the lawn in front of my mooring with any excess I may have ...
The marina manager is a stingy ....#^*..!!

[tomcarm]

Good differentiation - can we split the thread to encourage fuller consideration of the three issues you have clarified.
As we improve the harvesting of electricity and then the minimizing of its use, we end up with the question of how best to use it.
Likewise is how to use the excess electrical power created whilst actually travelling ...
I hope you accept this as an important aspect of the thread ...

[dapope]

We often run either heating or cooling via the inverter while driving. If we get it set right, we still arrive with full batteries, as well as a comfortable vehicle.
I have ordered an induction cooktop as well, the 2000w element one takes too long to cool down after use. An electric jug is on the list.
We were at 100% before 10 this morning. We are parked up and on shore power, but lights and both fridges run off the batteries.

[bagmaker]

ok, added heating to list where I thought about correct -thanks T1 Terry- although those in southern climates might like it a bit higher in terms of importance

Refridgeration (basic fridge/freezer, extra deep freeze, airconditioning, water chilling)
Cooking (including water supply, coffee makers, bread makers, cook-tops)
Hot water
Heating
Lighting
Washing / systems (clothes, etc)
Entertainment & communication

Busman- reverse cycle is the most efficient means of heating so you are on the right track.
Wombat- jeepers, thats some power you have going there (could you list your system just out of interest?- you might head up any p155ing contests )
tomcarm - snip- Not wishing to divert the creative flow ... are you wanting to use the excess electricity generated whilst driving ...
An experienced camper talked of running his aircon whilst driving (thru an inverter) so that he had a cool van for lunch & on arrival at a camp ... Is this possible?
Likewise, could a bread maker or slow cooker be used to use up the excess? -snip, yes, yes and yes.
BruceS & Dapope &- all good points

There isn't a set direction for the thread, its just banter among interested parties. I am a bit of efficiency nutter so will always push for the best usage of the power(s) we have.
T1 Terry is headed for an area in his educational threads which will (I expect) require the dumping of a considerable electrical excess and at present, our use for that excess is not very economical.

So the considerations should be thought out from the beginning, hence the listing of our actual energy needs and wants.

There are a number of alternative ways to store energy apart from our battery, we should consider some of them too.
For example, creating cold (which seems to be our number 1 requirement) has a byproduct of creating heat (mechanical refridgeration cycles) and its much more efficient to create heat with refridgeration than it is with straight electricity.
Harder, sure but more efficient.
An electric element is a very efficient form of water heater -usually 100%- but it still lags well behind reverse cycle.

I am pretty sure I know how to do most of this but based on history I must admit that I will be wrong, its just "how much"
Also, is the added complexity of these systems worth the benefit?

So lets meander on......

[Busman]

A couple of things i forgot...

We use some of our power (very small amount) to run 2 x 120mm fans. These are 100 thousand hour fans and extremely quiet. They force air into the black and grey tanks which exits under the solar panels on the roof. They run 24/7 pulling .4 of an amp. We discovered this method in our first bus 40 odd years ago. No smell, no napisan needed, although I throw a bit in occasionally to help breakdown.And the load helps the lithiums I have found.

We also fitted a couple of DC to DC switches so we can use the bus alternator (240 amps at 24 V) to charge the house after the cranks are satisfied. Only when moving but allows you to use the air when it is a warm day but with crappy solar charging conditions. Not needed much but allows 140 amps to the house of needed.

We have NO generator.

While the idea of making hot water from your aircon is feasible the mechanics of it would be too difficult ? And if the temp is such that you need to run aircon to keep cool, how much hot water do you need anyway ? For me the added complexity would NOT be worth the effort