Lithium Batteries, who has them?

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campingnut
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?

Post by campingnut »

Thanks heaps for that -do I need a sine wave inverter to run the charger or will a cheaper square wave one do? My question with the cells is -are you better off with lots of smaller cells in parallel (eg50a/h) then four lots of them in series or just 4 of the one bigger cell (eh 100a/h)?

I'll be back for more thanks Terry.
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Boblebago
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?

Post by Boblebago »

campingnut wrote:Thanks heaps for that -do I need a sine wave inverter to run the charger or will a cheaper square wave one do? My question with the cells is -are you better off with lots of smaller cells in parallel (eg50a/h) then four lots of them in series or just 4 of the one bigger cell (eh 100a/h)?

I'll be back for more thanks Terry.
You will need 16 100Ah cells to to make 12v at 400Ah
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?

Post by T1 Terry »

campingnut wrote:Thanks heaps for that -do I need a sine wave inverter to run the charger or will a cheaper square wave one do? My question with the cells is -are you better off with lots of smaller cells in parallel (eg50a/h) then four lots of them in series or just 4 of the one bigger cell (eh 100a/h)?

I'll be back for more thanks Terry.
Now we come to the conundrum (A logical postulation that evades resolution, an intricate and difficult problem) :lol: when does the problem of too many connections V not enough multiples to balance the pluses and minuses normally found in a mass produced item. I think it really comes down to what space you have, what size cells a quality manufacturer offers and the cost increase the additional connections might add. Generally 4 in parallel is a good balance, but up to 8 is still feasible if the price is right, past that would require a serious benefits analysis to justify going down that path.
I finally found the photos :roll:
William's battery box1 small file size.jpg
William's battery box2 small file size.jpg
This is a Sinopoly 800Ah @ 24vnom. pack, 2 drawers of cells, they fitted best this way and the price was right. Note the method of clamping the cells, end plates bolted down to supply the crush required to stop the cells ballooning their cases and loosing capacity.
GBS 1200ah pack.jpg
This is a 1200Ah pack of GBS cells in a boat
200ah_WB_12v with end plates and straps.JPG
this is a 4 cells in series 200Ah @ 12v battery, note this strapping method
8_cell_12v_200ah_2.jpg
This is also a 200Ah @ 12v made of from 8 x 100Ah cells in parallel/series. Note the way these were strapped and how the linking connectors are fitted to build the parallel/series battery.


T1 Terry
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dapope
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?

Post by dapope »

Geoff has a really tidy battery box, I went with 8 cells for my 400ah as it fitted the space available, 8x 200ah cells, 4prs
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campingnut
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?

Post by campingnut »

Thanks pope and Terry -I might have access to a number of 60a/hr and was thinking to do four sets (hooked up in series made up of four cells in each lot in parallel) Total of 12v with 240 a/hr -going to run a 40 litre freezer -500 watts of panels (well in name lol)
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SteveW
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?

Post by SteveW »

Here's something for the lithium folk:
http://www.news.com.au/technology/gadge ... 7090950619
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?

Post by T1 Terry »

SteveW wrote:Here's something for the lithium folk:
http://www.news.com.au/technology/gadge ... 7090950619
If it's the 2 min charging article, my reply to it is here http://www.caravanersforum.com/viewtopi ... b6#p743885 Might be good for a phone or an I pad etc, but not in the hunt for an electric vehicle and of no advantage for house power storage.

T1 Terry
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?

Post by T1 Terry »

My bit for today was updating a the Friday post with some photos. I'll get back to adding more info posts tomorrow, headaches willing of course

T1 Terry
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?

Post by Busman »

Jeez some of those black cells look familiar...................
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slowhand
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?

Post by slowhand »

SteveW wrote:Here's something for the lithium folk:
http://www.news.com.au/technology/gadge ... 7090950619
Steve, there has been a couple of universities here in Aus that have been working on fast charging cells for a number of years. It all boils down to how charged electrons are accepted into the cell pack. Normally when charged electrons enter a storage system they are pumped in, with them all facing different directions and bounce around crashing into each other, slowing input and blocking entry of other electrons until they settle down. That's why slow charging is used so there is no stress or confusion within the cell and electrons flow freely. What they are doing is trying to get the electrons flowing easily in line into the storage at very fast rates.

Put simply, it's like trying to fill a 1lt narrow necked bottle with a fire hose, you can fill a big open 100lt tank with it quicker. The aim is to use the fire hose to fill the bottle without resistance and blow back at the same rate as the open tank. To do that they have to get the electrons all facing the same way lined up so they simply flow in very rapidly.

The people who make my BMS, already have a 4 seater 4x4 test vehicle which has a usable range of over 1000 klms, using regenerative braking and a body made up of Kevlar/carbon fibre impregnated with solar cells. It has a top speed of over 160klms. They have a system which can charge their cell packs in 15 minutes, but it is cumbersome and relies upon large capacitors that adsorb electrons blocking the way into the cell. When the pack gets near full charge, the charge switches off and capacitors slip them back into the pack. What they are aiming for is a different configuration of cell and chargers so they send and accept the electrons all lined up nicely together, like a piece of string and not randomly as is the case now. When you drop the string of electrons into the cell, it stays in line and fills very quickly, much faster than trying to stuff them in willy nilly as they do now. They also use capacitors to store regenerative and solar cell energy in the vehicle, which dribbles into the cells when there's not enough charge from sunlight. So the vehicle can run even further and into the night.

When it comes to off grid, this will mean whatever amount of energy you can produce, your storage system will take it, so during the day you have almost unlimited energy to play with. If you have tracking panels, you have kilowatts of energy to use for many hours to run workshops, machinery etc and still have 100% at night. The same goes for RV, if you have say a 60 amp input capacity you can run anything during the day and not worry about getting low at night. As it's rare for RV's to have tracking systems, you won't get the full advantageous out of fast charging, but will certainly double your daily charge capacity easily.

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