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Just found there is a 3.1kW unit. Maybe that is what the problem was?
Lithium Batteries, who has them?
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?
I have decided to go LiFePO4 for Wilbor’s house batteries. I would like 200AH @ 24v. Due to battery compartment restrictions I was considering something like CALB CA180FI cells due to their physical size.
The cells will have to be mounted in the vehicle on their side as the space for batteries is limited to 220mm high x 600mm deep x 580mm wide. I envisage constructing some sort of battery box to protect them from water and dust as at present the batteries are subject to some dust, road grime and water.
I have located a GBS 200AH cell in China that is perfect size wise for our installation. They will supply it as a single cell or as a 12v battery pack measuring 244mmL x 142mmWx 485mmL. Price quoted is 220USD per cell. I am looking at 2 x 12v packs & I am currently looking into freight costs and customs fees from an Aussie shipping agent.
Motorhome house and start batteries are 24v. House batteries are 2 x 200AH flooded LA batteries (N200) in series. The Start bank batteries are 110AH deep cycle marine batteries. Both banks are connected in parallel and the start batteries can be isolated.
I have 1150 watts of solar
2 x 400 watt 24v and
3 x 250 watt 24v solar panels
Solar controllers (2) are
1 x Morningstar Prostar 30amp and
1 x Electro SBC-7220 20amp
Battery charger is a 30amp Xantrex Truecharge-2
I have a Seltronic SA32 Inverter and a Xantrex LinkLite Battery Monitor.
Morningstar Prostar 30 has 3 settings; Gel, Sealed and Flooded and voltages are
Gel: Bulk/Absorb 28v, Float 27.4v
Sealed: Bulk/Absorb 28.3v, Float 27.4v & Equalise 28.7v
Flooded: Bulk/Absorb 28.8v, Float 27.4v & Equalise 29.8/30.2v
Electro SBC-7220 20amp is adjustable and at present set on
Bulk/Absorb 28.6v & Float 27v
Xantrex Truecharge-2
Flooded: Bulk/Absorb 28.8v & Float 27v
Gel: Bulk/Absorb 28.4v & Float 27.6v
AGM: Bulk/Absorb 28.6v & Float 26.8v
L/Calcium: Bulk/Absorb 31v & Float 27v
Although not presently fitted, I also own a Mastervolt Mass 24/50 battery charger. This is a 24v, 50 amp charger with the following output:
Flooded: Bulk/Absorb 28.5v & Float 26.5v
Gel: Bulk/Absorb 28.5v & Float 27.6v
I will isolate the house batteries from the vehicle alternator and start batteries but maintain the ability to start the vehicle from the house battery in an emergency.
I am not sure what I will do with 24v alternator charging at this stage.
I am seeking some advice on the suitability of the above equipment and their settings.
Would I be better off using the 2 x 12v packs in series or make them into a single 24v pack?
As for a BMS & BCU I am a bit interested in the BMS cell modules and a BCU-PPAK from EV Power. Any comments or suggestions on these two items?
The cells will have to be mounted in the vehicle on their side as the space for batteries is limited to 220mm high x 600mm deep x 580mm wide. I envisage constructing some sort of battery box to protect them from water and dust as at present the batteries are subject to some dust, road grime and water.
I have located a GBS 200AH cell in China that is perfect size wise for our installation. They will supply it as a single cell or as a 12v battery pack measuring 244mmL x 142mmWx 485mmL. Price quoted is 220USD per cell. I am looking at 2 x 12v packs & I am currently looking into freight costs and customs fees from an Aussie shipping agent.
Motorhome house and start batteries are 24v. House batteries are 2 x 200AH flooded LA batteries (N200) in series. The Start bank batteries are 110AH deep cycle marine batteries. Both banks are connected in parallel and the start batteries can be isolated.
I have 1150 watts of solar
2 x 400 watt 24v and
3 x 250 watt 24v solar panels
Solar controllers (2) are
1 x Morningstar Prostar 30amp and
1 x Electro SBC-7220 20amp
Battery charger is a 30amp Xantrex Truecharge-2
I have a Seltronic SA32 Inverter and a Xantrex LinkLite Battery Monitor.
Morningstar Prostar 30 has 3 settings; Gel, Sealed and Flooded and voltages are
Gel: Bulk/Absorb 28v, Float 27.4v
Sealed: Bulk/Absorb 28.3v, Float 27.4v & Equalise 28.7v
Flooded: Bulk/Absorb 28.8v, Float 27.4v & Equalise 29.8/30.2v
Electro SBC-7220 20amp is adjustable and at present set on
Bulk/Absorb 28.6v & Float 27v
Xantrex Truecharge-2
Flooded: Bulk/Absorb 28.8v & Float 27v
Gel: Bulk/Absorb 28.4v & Float 27.6v
AGM: Bulk/Absorb 28.6v & Float 26.8v
L/Calcium: Bulk/Absorb 31v & Float 27v
Although not presently fitted, I also own a Mastervolt Mass 24/50 battery charger. This is a 24v, 50 amp charger with the following output:
Flooded: Bulk/Absorb 28.5v & Float 26.5v
Gel: Bulk/Absorb 28.5v & Float 27.6v
I will isolate the house batteries from the vehicle alternator and start batteries but maintain the ability to start the vehicle from the house battery in an emergency.
I am not sure what I will do with 24v alternator charging at this stage.
I am seeking some advice on the suitability of the above equipment and their settings.
Would I be better off using the 2 x 12v packs in series or make them into a single 24v pack?
As for a BMS & BCU I am a bit interested in the BMS cell modules and a BCU-PPAK from EV Power. Any comments or suggestions on these two items?
Rob
Swagman
WILBOR-TOO
Why I Like Being On Road - Too
Swagman
WILBOR-TOO
Why I Like Being On Road - Too
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?
G'day Rob, you may find TNT your best bet for air freighting your cells to Aus, most Chinese suppliers use them and unless you purchase over 100 cells, sea freight can be more expensive and very slow. Via air freight just pay GST, then they get delivered to your door.
We've just received a load of cells which languished in customs for weeks because the suppliers didn't provide an invoice for GST, so TNT took 2 weeks to contact us and then tried to add their freight cost on top. Took 3 days to work it out, so make sure you have everything in order.
Get your supplier to organise freight, if they can't, don't deal with them as it will end up costing you heaps extra organising transport within china and they could end up anywhere.
Use paypal for paying, so you have some security for your money, if they don't use paypal, don't deal with them. Get your guarantees in writing and find out the procedure if you end up with a faulty cell All decent suppliers have contingency plans for returning faulty equipment, those that don't provide you with that security are best left alone.
Make sure you work out the exchange rates for the cells and freight prior to buying, so you know the total cost. Known a couple of people that have gone to buy from china thinking they were getting a good deal until they got the full exchange rate cost Hope that helps
We've just received a load of cells which languished in customs for weeks because the suppliers didn't provide an invoice for GST, so TNT took 2 weeks to contact us and then tried to add their freight cost on top. Took 3 days to work it out, so make sure you have everything in order.
Get your supplier to organise freight, if they can't, don't deal with them as it will end up costing you heaps extra organising transport within china and they could end up anywhere.
Use paypal for paying, so you have some security for your money, if they don't use paypal, don't deal with them. Get your guarantees in writing and find out the procedure if you end up with a faulty cell All decent suppliers have contingency plans for returning faulty equipment, those that don't provide you with that security are best left alone.
Make sure you work out the exchange rates for the cells and freight prior to buying, so you know the total cost. Known a couple of people that have gone to buy from china thinking they were getting a good deal until they got the full exchange rate cost Hope that helps
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?
Rob may I suggest you look at local prices first?
$1.52/ah at present before strapping/freight/connectors etc
That price is for whatever shape size you wish.
http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatur ... 3=NA&id=49
Contact Trev or Marcy here...
http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatural/ContactUs.asp
Sizes/shapes here...
http://en.winston-battery.com/index.php ... er-battery
I know I wouldn't consider a 12v one............ buy the individual cells & create your own.
As far as I know there is not yet a fail=safe BMS/CMS as yet but when a person like you comes along & creates one I'll have one.........
Go on you know you want to do it!!! It doesn't just need a Cell Monitoring System, it needs a CCCS. Cell Charging Control System....
Need a lend of my soldering ion? lol
$1.52/ah at present before strapping/freight/connectors etc
That price is for whatever shape size you wish.
http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatur ... 3=NA&id=49
Contact Trev or Marcy here...
http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatural/ContactUs.asp
Sizes/shapes here...
http://en.winston-battery.com/index.php ... er-battery
I know I wouldn't consider a 12v one............ buy the individual cells & create your own.
As far as I know there is not yet a fail=safe BMS/CMS as yet but when a person like you comes along & creates one I'll have one.........
Go on you know you want to do it!!! It doesn't just need a Cell Monitoring System, it needs a CCCS. Cell Charging Control System....
Need a lend of my soldering ion? lol
*******************
BruceS
Mannum, SA
********************
BruceS
Mannum, SA
********************
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?
That would be for sodering, Bruce? Or for vaporising the connections by electrical discharge?BruceS wrote:Need a lend of my soldering ion? lol
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?
The CALB CA cells are brilliant, for electric vehicle applications, not so much for house battery applications. I'm not sure if you managed to find a price for the CALB CA180Ah cells, but the 100Ah cells they advertise come out at $1.65 plus GST per Ah, a little over $1.80 per Ah, $1452 per 100Ah @ 24v, that is expensive. Winston LYP cells that are better suited are $1.52Ah from Trev & Marcy including GST, $1216 per 100Ah @ 24v.Wilbor wrote:I have decided to go LiFePO4 for Wilbor’s house batteries. I would like 200AH @ 24v. Due to battery compartment restrictions I was considering something like CALB CA180FI cells due to their physical size.
The cells will have to be mounted in the vehicle on their side as the space for batteries is limited to 220mm high x 600mm deep x 580mm wide. I envisage constructing some sort of battery box to protect them from water and dust as at present the batteries are subject to some dust, road grime and water.
I have located a GBS 200AH cell in China that is perfect size wise for our installation. They will supply it as a single cell or as a 12v battery pack measuring 244mmL x 142mmWx 485mmL. Price quoted is 220USD per cell. I am looking at 2 x 12v packs & I am currently looking into freight costs and customs fees from an Aussie shipping agent.
Motorhome house and start batteries are 24v. House batteries are 2 x 200AH flooded LA batteries (N200) in series. The Start bank batteries are 110AH deep cycle marine batteries. Both banks are connected in parallel and the start batteries can be isolated.
I have 1150 watts of solar
2 x 400 watt 24v and
3 x 250 watt 24v solar panels
Solar controllers (2) are
1 x Morningstar Prostar 30amp and
1 x Electro SBC-7220 20amp
Battery charger is a 30amp Xantrex Truecharge-2
I have a Seltronic SA32 Inverter and a Xantrex LinkLite Battery Monitor.
Morningstar Prostar 30 has 3 settings; Gel, Sealed and Flooded and voltages are
Gel: Bulk/Absorb 28v, Float 27.4v
Sealed: Bulk/Absorb 28.3v, Float 27.4v & Equalise 28.7v
Flooded: Bulk/Absorb 28.8v, Float 27.4v & Equalise 29.8/30.2v
Electro SBC-7220 20amp is adjustable and at present set on
Bulk/Absorb 28.6v & Float 27v
Xantrex Truecharge-2
Flooded: Bulk/Absorb 28.8v & Float 27v
Gel: Bulk/Absorb 28.4v & Float 27.6v
AGM: Bulk/Absorb 28.6v & Float 26.8v
L/Calcium: Bulk/Absorb 31v & Float 27v
Although not presently fitted, I also own a Mastervolt Mass 24/50 battery charger. This is a 24v, 50 amp charger with the following output:
Flooded: Bulk/Absorb 28.5v & Float 26.5v
Gel: Bulk/Absorb 28.5v & Float 27.6v
I will isolate the house batteries from the vehicle alternator and start batteries but maintain the ability to start the vehicle from the house battery in an emergency.
I am not sure what I will do with 24v alternator charging at this stage.
I am seeking some advice on the suitability of the above equipment and their settings.
Would I be better off using the 2 x 12v packs in series or make them into a single 24v pack?
As for a BMS & BCU I am a bit interested in the BMS cell modules and a BCU-PPAK from EV Power. Any comments or suggestions on these two items?
I would steer clear of the GBS cells until they sort their cycle life issues, users are reporting rapid deterioration of capacity even in very big systems (1200Ah) exercised to only 60% SOC max, those attempting to use them for EV use are extremely disappointed after exercising them at much deeper discharge levels. It's a shame as their terminal and battery top design is brilliant.
Another supplier that may be worth checking out is Sinopoly, but again, the LYP cells, not the LFP cells, very old technology compounds as far as lithium battery technology goes so the expected cycle life and over all capabilities are lower than the LYP product.
I would not recommend building a 200Ah battery from 200Ah cells, especially a 24v battery, you will be looking at a world of pain when it comes to keeping the cells in balance, I explained why earlier in this thread. You are far better off building the battery using 100Ah cells, 2 in parallel x 8 groups in series (2P8S) they will be much easier to keep in balance.
BMS systems designed for EV use simply do not work when it comes to house power use, we are working on an automated balance system for 24v batteries at the moment using 2 different approaches on a system that has 2 different sized 24v battery linked into the one house system......... the box of control gear required to do that without any thought of auto balancing would have your eyes rolling so I would not recommend anyone even thinking about doing that


As far as the 2 solar regulators you have, I can build control gear to have them work with the lithium cell protection system, but in the long run you may be better off selling them and moving to a Dingo 20/20 and solid state relay control for peace of mind and wallet.
Again, I can build a control for the mains charger so it can work together with the cell protection system. None of the charging gear you have can be simply connected to the lithium battery without expecting serious cell damage to occur, at the moment their is no off the shelf charging system that can do this, all of them need an interface to work with the cell protection system, just the Plasmatronics units and in particular the Dingo are the easiest to work with when it comes to 24v or higher systems.
Hope that helped
T1 Terry
A person may fail many times, they only become a failure when they blame someone else John Burrows
Those who struggle to become a leader, rarely know a clear direction forward for anyone but themselves
Those who struggle to become a leader, rarely know a clear direction forward for anyone but themselves
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?
Thanks for the replies everyone
I have bugger all internet at the moment, will get back soon

Rob
Swagman
WILBOR-TOO
Why I Like Being On Road - Too
Swagman
WILBOR-TOO
Why I Like Being On Road - Too
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?
You might want to leave some room for extra battery capacity, there is ample solar to support double what you are considering.
Also, why keep the start batteries? From what I understand the truck will crank well on your house pack even down to 20% capacity.
Also, why keep the start batteries? From what I understand the truck will crank well on your house pack even down to 20% capacity.
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?
If you want to run the eng from the house batteries you need a fully adjustable regulator such as the Balmar smart regulator http://www.emarineinc.com/products/Balm ... rness.html with an alternator temp sensor and belt manager to limit the output. then it can be integrated into the cell management system so both te cells and the alternator were protected from damage.bagmaker wrote:You might want to leave some room for extra battery capacity, there is ample solar to support double what you are considering.
Also, why keep the start batteries? From what I understand the truck will crank well on your house pack even down to 20% capacity.
T1 Terry
A person may fail many times, they only become a failure when they blame someone else John Burrows
Those who struggle to become a leader, rarely know a clear direction forward for anyone but themselves
Those who struggle to become a leader, rarely know a clear direction forward for anyone but themselves
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Re: Lithium Batteries, who has them?
Righto, we are at Green Point on the west coast of Tassie and have 2 bars on the phone. Beautiful spot.
Thanks for the advice on importing and freight Slowhand. The manufacturer has been very helpful and so has the Aussie shipping agent I contacted, but I still don't have a final cost to my door once it leaves the factory. I might give the importing idea a miss
So the reason I was looking at GBS in China was solely due to their size to fit the space I have for house batteries. The stairs hinge up over the house batteries and I have a grey water tank in front of them so providing extra space is not an option without major surgery.
I am more than happy buying locally; it is much easier and so much less hassle. When I enquired with EV Power about CALB cells they steered me to GBS cells but what they had would not fit. So off to the manufacturer in China I went. And Bruce, the reason I was looking at their 12v battery pack was because it was the same price as 4 single cells, 220USD each and came already packed. It was my thinking to rearrange the connectors on the 2 packs to make it 24v by putting them all in series.
Terry, I have taken on board what you have said about the 100AH cells and I am now looking at the Winston WB-LYP100AHA cells, 16 of these will fit the space
Does anyone know what the main difference is between the WB-LYP100AHA and the WB-LYP100AHA (A) is? Both of these will fit.
I have emailed Trev and Marcy to see if they have them in stock.
I have been following this thread with interest over many weeks but I think I need to go back to the start and do a bit of cut and pasting to get all the info in one document and have a re-read. Terry, I will send you a PM about what I will need in relation to a BMS
Thanks everyone, ill go out and enjoy a bit of sun shine and some clean air straight off the Indian Ocean
Thanks for the advice on importing and freight Slowhand. The manufacturer has been very helpful and so has the Aussie shipping agent I contacted, but I still don't have a final cost to my door once it leaves the factory. I might give the importing idea a miss
So the reason I was looking at GBS in China was solely due to their size to fit the space I have for house batteries. The stairs hinge up over the house batteries and I have a grey water tank in front of them so providing extra space is not an option without major surgery.
I am more than happy buying locally; it is much easier and so much less hassle. When I enquired with EV Power about CALB cells they steered me to GBS cells but what they had would not fit. So off to the manufacturer in China I went. And Bruce, the reason I was looking at their 12v battery pack was because it was the same price as 4 single cells, 220USD each and came already packed. It was my thinking to rearrange the connectors on the 2 packs to make it 24v by putting them all in series.
Terry, I have taken on board what you have said about the 100AH cells and I am now looking at the Winston WB-LYP100AHA cells, 16 of these will fit the space

I have emailed Trev and Marcy to see if they have them in stock.
I have been following this thread with interest over many weeks but I think I need to go back to the start and do a bit of cut and pasting to get all the info in one document and have a re-read. Terry, I will send you a PM about what I will need in relation to a BMS

Rob
Swagman
WILBOR-TOO
Why I Like Being On Road - Too
Swagman
WILBOR-TOO
Why I Like Being On Road - Too