Lithium Batteries, who has them?

[T1 Terry]

As I'm considering almost a complete upgrade to lithium from AGM, I read the following from somewhere else.

I'm considering 1000 watts of flexible solar panels with 400 ah of lithium.

The following info seems to leave me short when considering A/C.

Is this accuarate?

WHAT SIZE PACK FOR ME?
Not sure how to size your lithium battery pack, from our experience this is the size pack required for a given use. The solar panel size is recommended for fixed flat mounting and should give sufficient power for average use, if you are unable to fit the listed amount of solar your system may need external topup on cloudy days. If you are a light user, you may be able to go down one pack size, if you are heavy user it may be useful for you to go up one size. Run well you should be able to free camp and not have to run a generator, however if your solar panels are in the shade at times, the system may struggle. This table applies to a 12volt system and is not meant for domestic house supply system which would have to be larger.

Small system, Replaces 100ah AGM
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet.
Power pack size - 75ah
Solar panel size. - 200w

Medium system, Replaces 200ah AGM
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet, Small fridge 60l Engel/Waeco
Power pack size - 150ah
Solar panel size. - 400w

Average system, Replaces 300ah AGM
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet. Medium fridge 80l, small inverter to run microwave, kettle, toaster.
Power pack size - 225ah
Solar panel size. - 600w

Large system, Replaces 400ah AGM
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet. Two door fridge, inverter to run microwave, kettle, toaster.
Power pack size - 300ah
Solar panel size. - 800w

Extra large system,
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet. Large fridge, large inverter, microwave, kettle, toaster.
Power pack size - 450ah
Solar panel size. - 1200w

Maxi system,
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet. Large fridge, small freezer, full electric kitchen/galley induction hotplate. Full electric with no gas use is possible. Small airconditioner.
Power pack size - 600ah
Solar panel size. - 1600w

Apart from the pack size comparison to AGM being a bit on the heavy side, more accurate would be 50% of the AGM advertised capacity but larger is always safer/better I guess. As far as running the A/C, limited use on 400Ah if the solar is not the primary power source. To size solar for all day good "sun" day use the A/C draw x 1.3 to calculate the solar required, x 1.5 to run other stuff at the same time and recharge the over night use quicker. Look for the watts in the power use section of the specs, not the rate heating/cooling power as this is heat energy watts pumped from one unit to the other. The cop figure is the percentage more it can heat pump compared to the electrical energy required to do the job, figures of 4.5 cop can be seen these days meaning 4500w of cooling would require 1000w of electrical energy.... well that's the idea anyway, it doesn't mean it can always achieve that of course. Most inverter style system is set on high will progressively step up to their full power rating and that can be just as much as a non inverter units, the difference is when it scales back the cooling it reduces the electrical energy demand when the non inverter unit is either compressor on or compressor off, only the fan remains reasonably constant.
Looking at this post by Martin http://www.ozervnews.com/forum/viewtopi ... 130#p66686 the 1680w the A/C pulls at peak load would require around 2200w of solar and the battery makes up the short fall until the unit scales back a bit and then the battery gets topped back up. Naturally not running the unit at full tilt would reduce the electrical energy requirement and keep in mind that DC to DC charging can also be used to boost the charge rate when/if required

T1 Terry

[Craig]

Great info Terry. Now I just need to sell 3 or 4 ounces of gold . Anyone want some clean natural gold nuggets .

[BernieQ2]

Give you 20 bucks if you give free delivery Craig .
Bernie .
haha .

[Craig]

20 bucks doesn't even get you half a gram

[BernieQ2]

Bugga Craig I thought that was a fair offer
How about I swap you for a bucket of mica
Bernie .

[native pepper]

Kappy, I have 480amp lifepo4 x 460w solar in my bus, and 790amp x 4.25kw solar/350w wind in my house. The bus is in the process of having a panel and controls upgrade, which has stalled because I bizarrely decided to build a sunroom and new entrance on the house. The house has been on lifepo4 for a number of years and we run an A/c, fridge, 2 freezers, 4 slice toaster, induction hotplates, vacum cleaner, big TV and two computers, as well as charging laptops, phones, camera's, torches, power tools and the band studio. Not all at once, but rationally.

The bus does about the same, including hotwater, no computers or A/c until next week, when a 5kw split inverter a/c arrives. Hence the upgrade of panels from 460w to 1000-1500, haven't made up my mind as to how much will add. We also have 360amp gel which is charged from the bus alternator and overflow from the lifepo4, it powers the hotwater heater now. When I add my 120amp portable lifepo4 pack, we have enough power to last a long time and live comfortably.

[Kappy]

Kappy, I have 480amp lifepo4 x 460w solar in my bus, and 790amp x 4.25kw solar/350w wind in my house. The bus is in the process of having a panel and controls upgrade, which has stalled because I bizarrely decided to build a sunroom and new entrance on the house. The house has been on lifepo4 for a number of years and we run an A/c, fridge, 2 freezers, 4 slice toaster, induction hotplates, vacum cleaner, big TV and two computers, as well as charging laptops, phones, camera's, torches, power tools and the band studio. Not all at once, but rationally.

The bus does about the same, including hotwater, no computers or A/c until next week, when a 5kw split inverter a/c arrives. Hence the upgrade of panels from 460w to 1000-1500, haven't made up my mind as to how much will add. We also have 360amp gel which is charged from the bus alternator and overflow from the lifepo4, it powers the hotwater heater now. When I add my 120amp portable lifepo4 pack, we have enough power to last a long time and live comfortably.

Thanks

Some of the jargon I'm still getting my head around, so I get a tad confused.

My previous set up didn't work so it seems, even though it seemed to run a lot of stuff from the 2000watt inverter from solar during the day but failed the 1st night.

I had no idea of the state of the AGM's and it appears they were RS.

So I wiil do the Lifepo upgrade and cross my fingers, has gotta be better than before

Cheers
Kappy

[Kappy]

As I'm considering almost a complete upgrade to lithium from AGM, I read the following from somewhere else.

I'm considering 1000 watts of flexible solar panels with 400 ah of lithium.

The following info seems to leave me short when considering A/C.

Is this accuarate?

WHAT SIZE PACK FOR ME?
Not sure how to size your lithium battery pack, from our experience this is the size pack required for a given use. The solar panel size is recommended for fixed flat mounting and should give sufficient power for average use, if you are unable to fit the listed amount of solar your system may need external topup on cloudy days. If you are a light user, you may be able to go down one pack size, if you are heavy user it may be useful for you to go up one size. Run well you should be able to free camp and not have to run a generator, however if your solar panels are in the shade at times, the system may struggle. This table applies to a 12volt system and is not meant for domestic house supply system which would have to be larger.

Small system, Replaces 100ah AGM
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet.
Power pack size - 75ah
Solar panel size. - 200w

Medium system, Replaces 200ah AGM
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet, Small fridge 60l Engel/Waeco
Power pack size - 150ah
Solar panel size. - 400w

Average system, Replaces 300ah AGM
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet. Medium fridge 80l, small inverter to run microwave, kettle, toaster.
Power pack size - 225ah
Solar panel size. - 600w

Large system, Replaces 400ah AGM
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet. Two door fridge, inverter to run microwave, kettle, toaster.
Power pack size - 300ah
Solar panel size. - 800w

Extra large system,
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet. Large fridge, large inverter, microwave, kettle, toaster.
Power pack size - 450ah
Solar panel size. - 1200w

Maxi system,
Use - Lights, device charging - phone, computer, tablet. Large fridge, small freezer, full electric kitchen/galley induction hotplate. Full electric with no gas use is possible. Small airconditioner.
Power pack size - 600ah
Solar panel size. - 1600w

Apart from the pack size comparison to AGM being a bit on the heavy side, more accurate would be 50% of the AGM advertised capacity but larger is always safer/better I guess. As far as running the A/C, limited use on 400Ah if the solar is not the primary power source. To size solar for all day good "sun" day use the A/C draw x 1.3 to calculate the solar required, x 1.5 to run other stuff at the same time and recharge the over night use quicker. Look for the watts in the power use section of the specs, not the rate heating/cooling power as this is heat energy watts pumped from one unit to the other. The cop figure is the percentage more it can heat pump compared to the electrical energy required to do the job, figures of 4.5 cop can be seen these days meaning 4500w of cooling would require 1000w of electrical energy.... well that's the idea anyway, it doesn't mean it can always achieve that of course. Most inverter style system is set on high will progressively step up to their full power rating and that can be just as much as a non inverter units, the difference is when it scales back the cooling it reduces the electrical energy demand when the non inverter unit is either compressor on or compressor off, only the fan remains reasonably constant.
Looking at this post by Martin http://www.ozervnews.com/forum/viewtopi ... 130#p66686 the 1680w the A/C pulls at peak load would require around 2200w of solar and the battery makes up the short fall until the unit scales back a bit and then the battery gets topped back up. Naturally not running the unit at full tilt would reduce the electrical energy requirement and keep in mind that DC to DC charging can also be used to boost the charge rate when/if required

T1 Terry

I guess DC to DC charging is from the vehicles alternator?

[T1 Terry]

Yes Kappy, or it can be from a second battery in the tow vehicle to transfer the stored electrical energy into the house battery if needed. Sort of a jerry can approach, when the tow/towed vehicle is being used as a run around the alternator charges that battery pack, then that is transferred to the house battery if needed.

T1 Terry

[aussiejohnny]

Interested to know more about that Terry. I have a small LA battery factory installed up the front of our van that i run a 24 - 12 dc dc sterling charger from the truck. There is a power wire from it to the rear of the van that powers the lights, slide outs etc.
Can i use it with this 'jerry can approach' to charge the lifepo4 battery pack while driving?
Also if travelling on a sunny day there should be no reason why the solar system can still be delivering charge?