New Battery Slide out

[Grandad]

Terry, I'm starting a new dedicated thread for this battery compartment so as not to clutter up your Avida thread. Ok, the real reason is so I can find the info when I need it. I admit it.

I'll start by copying the relevant post here.

[Grandad]

In the case of a slide-out battery pack, just need enough clearance for the lid that stops things falling across the cells and the battery cables to sit on top of that so they can slide back and forth without getting caught up on the battery terminals causing possible damage and in the extreme, a short circuit between cells.

Can you transpose all of that into a mm figure for me please?
I'm currently shopping access doors so trying to figure out required size.

I have the dimensions of the Winston cells from their website and I can work out depth and width of the slide itself no problem but all the stuff sticking out the top are a mystery to me. Doesn't sound like a whole lot.
EG: Would say 25mm sounds about right? 30mm maybe?

Cheers
Jim

You need to allow for the battery tray, the angle iron required to mount the fixed part of the slides as they are side mount not bottom mount, the slide height to where the battery tray locates in the right angle sliding pieces, a liner for the bottom of the battery box to cover the bolts used to secure the tray to the slider, the bolt and washer height above the cells, the cover thickness, the cable thickness, the amount the hinge on the door protrudes into the opening when fully open and another 10mm clearance for good measure just in case.
The end plate thickness plus cover thickness plus 0 gauge cable is approx. 40mm above the cell height, you will need to calculate the rest.
As far as width, the tray width plus the slide width plus angle iron thickness plus clearance for the door locking mechanism and about 20mm for good measure, more if you expect the cables to also run up one side of the battery pack when it slides in/out.

All that just to get it in and out the hole. You need the slide quite a bit longer than the battery pack/tray so some is still engaged to carry the weight when the battery is clear of the body and thickness of the door. If you don't have that much depth available you need to add the roller height to the clearance above the battery pack where it meets the door hinge so you can get the thing in the roller track and back out again if/when required.
In the case of Vic's build, the cell height excluding terminals and bolts is 275mm, the door height is 315mm, the opening from support frame height is 340mm, it is a real tight fit cause I missed the battery tray liner thickness in the calculations But these were the limits I had to work with because it was already built.

T1 Terry

[Grandad]

You need to allow for the battery tray, the angle iron required to mount the fixed part of the slides as they are side mount not bottom mount, the slide height to where the battery tray locates in the right angle sliding pieces, a liner for the bottom of the battery box to cover the bolts used to secure the tray to the slider, the bolt and washer height above the cells, the cover thickness, the cable thickness, the amount the hinge on the door protrudes into the opening when fully open and another 10mm clearance for good measure just in case.
The end plate thickness plus cover thickness plus 0 gauge cable is approx. 40mm above the cell height, you will need to calculate the rest.
As far as width, the tray width plus the slide width plus angle iron thickness plus clearance for the door locking mechanism and about 20mm for good measure, more if you expect the cables to also run up one side of the battery pack when it slides in/out.

I'm afraid I'm still now none the wiser. The only part I understood, i think.... was you plan to allow the end plates to protrude 40mm above the top of the cell. (Begs the question, 'Why?")
So, can you break it down for me again please?

According to THIS link a 100AH Winston cell is 218mm high.
Add maybe 3mm for a tray (Do I get that bent up or is this something you do at install time?) and 40mm for the end plates we have 262mm.
If I allow maybe 15mm for the actual slide/tray/shelf .... whatever, it should all still fit. Just. Does that end plate HAVE to stick up 40mm?

THIS is the door I'm think of. It seems the best fit so far.
An internal height of 280mm should be ok.
Is that a Yes? No? or Maybe?

According to my calcs there should be plenty of room for a 200AH pack. Regardless of how you orientate it. Even taking the curves in each corner into consideration.

Next, on another post.....can't find it right now..... you mentioned two holes for air circulation in diagonally opposite corners.
Got it..... But, ain't there always a 'but'... Do they both have to be internal into the caravan interior or can one be on an external wall?
Presumably the exhaust one preferably.
So, fresh air in from the cabin, but exhaust to the outside.

Will that work?

Cheers
Jim

[T1 Terry]

The end plate is folded over toward the cells at the top. This gives it both rigidity and some where for the lid to mount. The endplate is 15mm above the plastic part of the cell to allow clearance above the bolt heads after the links and cable lugs are added to the height above the terminals themselves, the lid is 10mm thick, the O gauge cable on top of the lid is 15mm, total 40mm.

The issues with the door you have selected will be the losses related to clearance at the rounded corners in real height x width that 330mm high x 280mm wide that is available in the opening. Next, that centre mounted door catch has a cast arm on the back that needs to catch against a flat surface, possibly the inside of the door frame. The battery pack must be clear of the arc that arm needs to swing for both unlocking and locking the door closed. On these Avida doors that arc is 60mm.
So, you need enough depth between the inside of the door frame and anything that will stop the battery sliding any further in of 180mm plus a min 60mm for the door catch, plus enough slide still behind the battery to support it when fully extended. The slide will need to be roughly 280mm long to allow the battery tray to be 60mm from the outer end of the slide plus 40mm of slide at the other end of the battery tray to act as support when the battery is fully extended on the slide so it clears the doorway.
You need to use the type that use roller bearings rather than ball bearing on a slide. but finding these short enough to do the job you want might be a challenge. The problem with the ball bearing in the slide type is the balls hammer dents in the slides from the road vibrations resulting in the slides being very difficult to operate and the ball bearings finally falling out resulting in stuffed slides that need to be replaced.
You could just go with angle on angle and add a layer of plastic breadboard material so it will slide in and out easier. The barbeque plastic liner material might work, but not sure how durable it would be against the constant pounding from the vibration, but I believe the breadboard material will handle it. You nee to add in the 2 layers of breadboard to the height calculation though .....

T1 Terry

Hmmm.... I stuffed up those measurements big time. It is a 300Ah pack not a 100Ah pack and it has to go in depthways not across. I'll have to do the maths again, but that door certainly won't fit 3 x 100Ah Winston cells side by side. The depth would need to be around 400mm and the inside clearance of the door opening would need to be at least 600mm wide. About the only thing available in the ones you are looking at is this one mounted on its side https://www.caravansplus.com.au/2644584 ... 15665.html

[Grandad]

I'll have to digest this for a bit and then get back to you. I'm 95% certain I factored in the radius correctly and it will work, but it's pushing the boundaries. I don't like that 5% of uncertainty.
The last thing i want is to rock up to Mannum at some future date and have you tell me, "Sorry Jim. The cells won't fit"

You got me thinking on the slides. My original trade in a past lifetime was cabinet maker. I think I've used just about every kind of slide ever made but I've never had to deal with vibration before. You've given me something to think about with breadboard material. Got a couple of 'out-there' ideas rattling around. I've used that stuff many times in the past to make jigs for table saws etc. It's handy stuff.

The problem I'm facing is the severe curve at the front/bottom of my van. That curve throws rocks at ideas of using larger access doors. But right from day 1, that's where I've planned to store the batteries. Even before you introduced me to the Lithium world.

Now, I'm toying with the idea of moving further back in the van, away from that curve and using a larger access door more under the kitchen cabinet for the batteries. Maybe that restricted area at the curve could be a good place for the diesel heater instead. But, that means bulk and very effective insulation requirements to stop heat from transferring to the batteries and all the separate gear that would then be directly above the heater.

More reading and research in my future I see.

Did you miss the question about the holes for the cross ventilation area?

Cheer, and thank you
Jim

[Grandad]

Hmmm.... I stuffed up those measurements big time. It is a 300Ah pack not a 100Ah pack and it has to go in depthways not across. I'll have to do the maths again, but that door certainly won't fit 3 x 100Ah Winston cells side by side. The depth would need to be around 400mm and the inside clearance of the door opening would need to be at least 600mm wide. About the only thing available in the ones you are looking at is this one mounted on its side https://www.caravansplus.com.au/2644584 ... 15665.html

I missed your edit while answering.
I was planning on 200AH. We better have a discussion maybe on how many AH I really need. I'll gather up some info and get back to you.
I should have 400mm depth by the way. Maybe just a tad more. I haven't factored in material thickness yet.

With that door you linked to, am I correct in assuming one uses the piece of cladding you cut out as the panel inside the door?
That door may work.

Jim

[Grandad]

Hmmm.... I stuffed up those measurements big time. It is a 300Ah pack not a 100Ah pack and it has to go in depthways not across. I'll have to do the maths again, but that door certainly won't fit 3 x 100Ah Winston cells side by side. The depth would need to be around 400mm and the inside clearance of the door opening would need to be at least 600mm wide. About the only thing available in the ones you are looking at is this one mounted on its side https://www.caravansplus.com.au/2644584 ... 15665.html

I missed your edit while answering.
I was planning on 200AH. We better have a discussion maybe on how many AH I really need. I'll gather up some info and get back to you.
I should have 400mm depth by the way. Maybe just a tad more. I haven't factored in material thickness yet.

I was picturing the cells going in depth wise. that would leave me the option of another 4 cells being added to the rear of the pack if needed in the future.

With that door you linked to, am I correct in assuming one uses the piece of cladding you cut out as the panel inside the door?
That door may work.

Jim

[Grandad]

Hmmm.... I stuffed up those measurements big time. It is a 300Ah pack not a 100Ah pack and it has to go in depthways not across. I'll have to do the maths again, but that door certainly won't fit 3 x 100Ah Winston cells side by side. The depth would need to be around 400mm and the inside clearance of the door opening would need to be at least 600mm wide. About the only thing available in the ones you are looking at is this one mounted on its side https://www.caravansplus.com.au/2644584 ... 15665.html

I missed your edit while answering.
I was planning on 200AH. We better have a discussion maybe on how many AH I really need. I'll gather up some info and get back to you.
I should have 400mm depth by the way. Maybe just a tad more. I haven't factored in material thickness yet.

I was picturing the cells going in depth wise. that would leave me the option of another 4 cells being added to the rear of the pack if needed in the future.

With that door you linked to, am I correct in assuming one uses the piece of cladding you cut out as the panel inside the door?
That door may work.

Jim

[Grandad]

Ok Terry, here we go.

I'll see your door recommendation and raise you with THIS door.
internal opening measurements of 512 x 346 mm That should be enough allowance for any eventuality. The pic below shows 12 x 100AH cells configured for 300AH as a worst case scenario. They fit in with room to spare on all sides, placed sideways. 200AH will fit super easy.

Pumpkin Power Cupboard (Small).jpg

I've lost just a small part of the kitchen storage area as you can see to the left.. No big deal.

This will be your access to the area above for inverters, regulators etc etc.

Pumpkin Power Cupboard2 (Small).jpg

As you can see, access is fair only. Basically kneel on the dinette seat and reach in from above. Not the best for ones back after a while but the best I can do I think. Although, leave it with me. I may come up with something better later. Maybe hinge the backrest of the dinette seat? The brain is still ticking.

That top section is 400mm deep x 260mm high x 650mm wide. All of my measurements should be treated as approx however. They're all taken off a CAD drawing. Actual measurements may vary -/+ 25mm?

Now, can you advise me re air flow please? You mentioned fans and inlets diagonally opposite earlier.
Is this for the top cupboard only? Or does the battery compartment need it too?
Can the outlet be external?
I think I can provide ducting through the dinette seat or the kitchen cupboard.

The shelf the batteries are sitting on will be 400mm deep. but four cells will be 268mm plus your packing. Therefore when the shelf is pulled out far enough to see the tops of all cells there will only be a little over 100mm left of the shelf to contain the weight of all the cells. I have the germ of an idea due to your breadboard idea and worse case scenario I'll find some heavy duty slides. i used a pair years ago that supported the weight of my arc welder.
Leave that issue with me. I'll work it out.



Cheers
Jim

[BruceS]

https://elraco.com.au/index.php/heavy-d ... gs03nk6b75

Good range here for some ideas?