Lithium batteries online

[native pepper]

You could jiggle the battery and if it sounds like fluid moving round, it's AGM . There is a problem with that approach, weight.

[Newcastle George]

You could jiggle the battery and if it sounds like fluid moving round, it's AGM . There is a problem with that approach, weight.

Especially when I'm looking at an AGM of approx 75kg.

George

[native pepper]

Basically, an electric bike battery in a plastic case made to look like a deep cycle battery, genuine like for like load testing between the Winston cells we use and these cells, about a 50Ah battery and that is being generous. It would require this battery to support a 100 amp load for 2 hrs to be a genuine 200Ah quality lithium battery, I'm estimating the 100 amp load would see the voltage drop to the 10v cut off in under 30 mins.
T1 Terry

This is why I say don't buy ready built lifepo4, when advocating 14.6v as the upper charge limit and 10v as dod, that to me is a recipe for short term use. Doubt there is any company that would be prepared to provide charge parameters that give life spans in decades, the businesses I've spoken to claim these charge parameters are industry standard and you will get shorter life using my parameters. When I mentioned that I've been using lithium for 20 years and lifepo4 for over 12 years and still have 100% capacity in the lifepo4 and 80-90% in my video camera Li-ion, they just shrugged and said bullshit they don't last that long.

If you build the packs yourself, get Terry or someone like him to do it for you, use the right charge parameters and you can expect decades out of your lifepo4. The amount of usable energy either side of 13.8v and 12v, is minimal and not worth worrying about, as all the real usable energy sits between 12v and 13.2v in my experience and have only taken one lifepo4 pack below 13v and that was because of a faulty voltage meter.

[jon_d]

expect decades out of your lifepo4.

There is always one consideration, that is; will "you" be driving the vehicle (or using the video camera) in 2+ decades time?

[T1 Terry]

Drop in lithium batteries are a replacement for drop in AGM batteries, they are not a lithium battery system that will provide the benefits associated with lithium batteries that those with a properly set up lithium battery systems talk about .... they are just a replacement for AGM batteries, the same limited current draw and shortened life if you expect to get more out of them than you got out of the AGM batteries.
The difference in $$ says a lot about the difference in quality, look up how much quality AGM batteries will cost you, Concorde is a respected quality battery builder, so is Rolls, these you can expect to get the 10 yrs life out of if you treat them properly ..... T1 Lithium battery systems suddenly become cheap when comparing Apples with Apples and useable AH with useable, you can have 100% of the advertised capacity from a T1 Lithium battery and still get the very long life all who have had a system fitted by us are still experiencing .......

T1 Terry

[T1 Terry]

Here's a question for the knowledgeable. How does one determine whether a battery is an AGM or a Gel without dismantling it if you don't trust what is written on the case?

George

Basically, you do not want a Gel battery if you plan to use it as a house battery. They only perform like the blurb says if used as a UPS power supply, and only then if the charge rate and discharge rate stays within the specified parameters set by the manufacturer. Unlike AGM batteries, these specs are not an advisory type of affair, they are the limits if you expect the Gel battery to last more than 12 mths. Push the limits severely when it comes to load current or charging current and that will be the end of the capacity you once had, no recovery, just stuffed.
Then there is the lead crystal batteries, you thought the charging and discharging regimes were tough for Gel batteries, wait till you see the genuine regime required to recharge a lead crystal battery, the deeper the discharge the more intense the regime.

T1 Terry

[native pepper]

expect decades out of your lifepo4.

There is always one consideration, that is; will "you" be driving the vehicle (or using the video camera) in 2+ decades time?

Jon, got my video camera in 2001, it was very expensive for the time and still has the same li-ion battery. Got my first lifepo4 in 2006 which is my 120ah portable pack, house system in 2007 and bus in 2010. Will I be around in 2 decades time, that will depend on luck, good management and the unknowns of the human world societies future, which to me is not looking good.

With my current approach, health, fitness, lifestyle and the knowledge I have now, expect to be around for the next 5 decades at least. Don't laugh, today's known science says that is possible and have the knowledge to do it. Have been searching for the solution for decades and been using the majority of the puzzle pieces for a long time, it was the last little bit of knowledge which had eluded me. However recently, that little piece of info has been discovered, proved and shown excellent results. Now if you are over 60, reasonably fit and healthy you can extent your life for as long as you want with the right approach and techniques.

Yes I will still need my lifepo4 in another 2 decades, unless they come up with something better which I expect they will within the next 2 years. My late mate was working on an energy storage system that had great potential for off grid and Ev's, which used graphene and capacitors. Now there are cars which use capacitors for boost storage and they are very close to coming up with a graphene lithium cell, which will have 5 times the density and capacity to current lithium, half the weight and easily rejuvenated when old.

But like all things, something even better may come along. I intend being around for a long time yet and there is no reason why anyone else can't do the same, the cost involved is very small and process simple. To me quality of life is more important than anything and you can only get that as you age, by changing your approach to life and taking control of it, not the lies, false marketing and deception.

I've already started practically putting the last piece of info into operation and just waiting on some gear to be able to put it to the test properly, have to built one part of it which have already started on. I'm quite open to describing the approach to any who want to know, but it's no magic bullet, just a disciplined approach to life that has now been proven to work.

[Newcastle George]

Terry,
I was endeavouring to be certain not to get a gel battery.

George

[T1 Terry]

Terry,
I was endeavouring to be certain not to get a gel battery.

George

They will proudly claim they are Gel batteries and attempt to charge more for them, so if they say they are AGM or other wise, you can be fairly safe that is what they are .... claiming they are Gel is an exception, a lot of AGM batteries have Gel on the label in an attempt to make them appear to be better than the others at that end od the price range.
If they displace a 20 hr capacity, 10 hr capacity and 5 hr capacity, good chance they are in the upper level quality AGM batteries, those that don't actually give their load rating regarding their claimed capacity are best left on the shelf .....

The Winston cells we use are rated at a 2hr capacity, eg. 100Ah discharged over 2 hrs and still retain 3v per cell while under load.
If you look at the Full River specs sheet for the 105Ah agm https://resources.fullriverbattery.com/ ... 105-12.pdf
the 2 hr discharge rate is 31.6 amps = 63.2Ah capacity, not 105Ah capacity, the 1 hr rate is 59.6 amps, the Winston is 100 amps and this is where the real difference between the chemistries shows their true colours. If the Winston cells were tested at the same 20 hr rate till the cell dropped to 2.5v or 10v for a 4 cell battery, the delivered capacity would be well above 200Ah, but if you only ever want a max of 5 amps per 100Ah capacity, you might as well stick with AGM batteries .....

T1 Terry

[T1 Terry]

Well I got Gel batteries & they are over 10 years old.
Not sure why they are no good?
They last longer than TV's around here!!! (hehe)

But do you know if there are really Gel cells Bruce? Are your house batteries single cells or built up as 12v batteries all in the one case?

T1 Terry